Sunday, July 19, 2015

Open Letter to the Incoming JD Class of 2018

Hello Imbecile. Despite the overwhelming mountain of hard evidence showing that: (a) the legal “profession” is GLUTTED; and (b) that law school is a terrible bet for the vast majority of students, you have decided to take the plunge anyway. Yeah, you’re a real bright bastard. After all, these facts do not apply to you, because even though you are enrolling in a third tier commode, YOU are still somehow exceptional, correct?!?!

Quick Breakdown: On July 15, 2015, ATL posted a Shannon Achimalbe piece labeled “4 Types Of People Who Shouldn’t Go To Law School.” Take a look at this opening:

“It is now mid-July and pre-law students are contemplating which law school to attend or whether to attend law school at all. Some have contacted me asking for advice. In the past, I was cynical and in most cases told them not to go without hearing them out. But now I try to be empathetic, listen to their stories, and discuss the pros and cons of attending the schools that accepted them. In most cases, I still tell them not to go unless they get a large, unconditional tuition discount for all three years. 

Today, I want to write about certain pre-law students who should think long and hard before going to law school. Unfortunately, they have made up their minds and it will be difficult, if not impossible, to convince them to reconsider. I don’t think they will be bad lawyers or have a difficult life after graduation. But I do think they are going for questionable reasons. Alternatively, they can accomplish their personal goals without an expensive law degree.” [Emphasis mine]

The author then provided a brief description of these fools and morons, which I have trimmed further:

”1. The Activist. Activists want to be lawyers because they want to change the system. Most become Activists because they or someone close to them got screwed over by the judicial system or the police. 

2. The Determined. These people have made their decision go to a non-elite law school and no one will stop them. They refuse to acknowledge that law school is no longer the career safe haven it used to be. Or they are aware of the risks but decide to go anyway. They get defensive and sometimes hostile whenever someone questions their decision. 

3. The Disgraced. These people have second thoughts about going to law school but need a dignified reason not to go in order to avoid disgrace. Some just want to avoid a personal feeling of failure. But others also face real-world consequences if they back down. Their parents will cut them off financially or even disown them. Their significant other might reconsider their relationship. Or their social and professional circle will look down on them. 

4. The Faithful. These people are also determined to go to law school but only because they feel that it is their spiritual duty. Like the Activists, they sincerely want to help and educate others. Most of them studied religion and the law either in school or informally. They go to worship services regularly and are morally good people.” [Emphasis mine]

Do you recognize yourself in any of those categories, waterhead?!?! If you want to help others or “change the system,” then you are already fighting a losing cause. There’s no sense in becoming FINANCIALLY RUINED, in the pursuit of such idealistic goals. Go serve food to bums in soup kitchens on the weekends, Dumbass.

Average Law School Indebtedness: According to a garbage publication known as US “News” & World Report, here are the schools with the highest average law school indebtedness, for those members of the JD class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school. Keep in mind that these figures do not take interest that accrues while the student is enrolled into account. By the way, of the top 15 offenders, only Northwestern, Columbia, and Georgetown are rated in the first tier. This means that they at least place many JDs in Biglaw positions.

A Brave New World: Back on June 19, 2012, the Atlantic featured a Jordan Weissman piece entitled “iLawyer: What Happens When Computers Replace Attorneys?” Check out the following portion:

“In the end, after you've stripped away their six-figure degrees, their state bar memberships, and their proclivity for capitalizing Odd Words, lawyers are just another breed of knowledge worker. They're paid to research, analyze, write, and argue -- not unlike an academic, a journalist, or an accountant. So when software comes along that's smarter or more efficient at those tasks than a human with a JD, it spells trouble. 

That's one of the issues the Wall Street Journal raised yesterday in an article on the ways computer algorithms are slowly replacing human eyes when it comes to handling certain pieces of large, high-stakes litigation. It focuses on a topic that is near and dear to the legal industry (and pretty much nobody else) known as discovery, which is the process where attorneys sort through troves of documents to find pieces of evidence that might be related to a lawsuit. While it might seem like a niche topic, what's going on in the field has big implications for anybody who earns their living dealing with information.” [Emphasis mine]

The article then mentions predictive coding, and notes that court$ now support the use of such software. Still want to incur an ass-load of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a chance to practice in a GLUTTED “profession”?!?!

Conclusion: If you choose to enroll in a non-elite law school today, and you end up FINANCIALLY RAPED, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Sure, the law schools are run by selfish pigs who don’t give a damn about their students. However, you cannot expect the cockroaches to turn away willing victims either. Simpletons such as yourself are keeping these bitches and hags in business. If you want to pursue a stupid dream, then try out for American Idol, idiot.


  1. Don't go. DON'T GO. Don't go.

    How many ways can it be said?!?

    No vayas. Geh nicht. Ne pas aller. Neit gaan. Non andare. Na tiegh. Gaan nie.

    No matter what language you speak, the message is the same: Don't go!!!

    1. Huwag kang pupunta.

    2. iieh, itaedene kudai sai

    3. Явж болохгүй

      אל תלכו

  2. Just an interesting side note regarding the future careers of law school graduates. A Harvard Law graduate was arrested at his parent's Lake Tahoe vacation home for pulling off elaborate kidnapping and robberies in Northern California. He was the man behind a kidnapping in Vallejo, California that the Vallejo police thought was a hoax because of the elaborate and bizarre nature of the kidnapping. Now of course, an ambulance chaserr lawyer is suing the Vallejo police department for not perceiving it as a credible "9-11 emergency". So you have a never ending cycle of lawyer parasites getting their thrills!

  3. I respectfully think there is a fifth category...The Disillusioned. A belief that more education yields better results. The bachelor's degree hasn't created any worthwhile employment so why not add a juris doctorate and the undergraduate degree didn't go to waste. It will all work out in the end or so one thinks and it just might like it did at one time long ago. But, the bachelor's degree was a bad bet and the law degree will very highly likely be an even worse one.

  4. HYS safe, especially Yale

    The rest of the top 14 are a risk due to the huge cost of attendance and no guarantee of landing Biglaw. Plus you'll likely flame out in 3-5 years and your skills won't be transferable to anything else.

    Outside the top 14 = risky

    Outside the top 50 = bad bet

    Outside the top 100 = IQ in the 80 range

    TTTT = full retard

    1. My take on this:

      HYS are safe, especially Yale, only if you don't go in thinking they're safe. See them as an opportunity to work hard and apply your natural talents, if any.

      T14 are risky even with a large scholarship. It's incredibly stupid to attend them at full price.

      Top 50 are defensible only with a full scholarship AND a very strong local or regional connection.

      TTTT = full retard

    2. HYS are the equivalent of Citizen Kane. Casablanca. Dr. Zhivago.

      T14 are on par with a good Clint Eastwood movie. You won’t be blown away by the plot or acting, but it’ll be solid.

      Top 50 are on par with shit like Nuns on the Run.

      TTTT = the shitty ass Paul Reiser Show. Cancelled after only 2 shitty episodes. It had lower rating that the crap it replaced.

    3. Not even Yale is safe.

      As I have said before, only 13 schools—the so-called "top 14" minus Georgetown—see at least half of their graduates go into Big Law or federal clerkships, the sorts of jobs that offer a realistic chance of paying off the debt from law school. Those 13 schools are questionable propositions even at a big discount. A handful of others may conceivably be worth attending if one gets free tuition or has solid connections in the legal field. The other 180 or so law schools should not be attended under any circumstances.

    4. UT is good for that region, and has a much lower in-state tuition. I would rank UT over Georgetown actually.

      I don't know what good Michigan and Minnesota are. Those grads never seem to get work anywhere.

      Probably UCLA and USC are better choices.

      So basically it breaks down to this:

      HYS anywhere. (3)
      Boalt, USC, UCLA for West coast (3)
      Chicago, Northwestern for mid-north (2)
      UT for mid-south (1)
      Columbia, NYU, UVA for EC (3)

      Gamble but can be okay: UPenn, Cornell (2) Problem is these are also EC which is already saturated because of the number of schools and as a destination for HY as well as the other 3 I listed.

      So basically there are 12 choices. And you'd have to know that UT is a hidden top 12, and that Mich, Minnesota and whatever else randomly sneaks into the T14 every once in awhile is likely a trap. It's good to see Minnesota and Michigan dropped, but it's important to point out not too long ago they were considered perennial T14. Goes to show you how these rankings aren't necessarily concrete, it's like a sports draft, you only know afterwards.

      But Old Guy and many others have even mentioned HYS isn't safe, and I quite believe them. After 6-7 years total with law school, HYS only really gives you a "reset" at best, but you lost 6-7 years of your prime and probably were stressed and became fat and unhealthy. So you lost badly on that, even without taking into account the failure to establish a career with progression. First few years of Big Law is essentially glorified doc review, higher pay and not much else for most.

      Unless you're part of the PPP classes, better to avoid law entirely. And even if you are PPP, there may not be much point either.

  5. Been reluctant to ask about my choice on this site...but here goes..

    I got a 30k, 20k, and 20k scholarship to Arizona state for each year, respectively. The requirement for keeping it is to stay in good standing with the school. I thought i'd get instate tuition (26.7k I year, out of state being 41.7k a year) by my second year but I don't know how reasonable that is. Hopefully at least by second semester.

    Regardless of whether or not I'll have debt once graduating, how poor of a decision was this? For what it's worth I'm going into my second year.

    1. Typing this on my phone, try and excuse typos and shitty grammar

    2. My cousin went to UCLA's law school. He was a research scientist before that. He got a similar scholarship to the one you got. He gave up a good career to go to law school. He did okay but not good enough. I think he graduated in the top 1/4 of his class. He lost his partial scholarship and ended up taking out $100k for his law degree. No legal job offers. It took him more than a year to get an entry level job in his old field. Now it's been 7 years after law school and he's making now what he was making 10 years ago. And that's not counting the 4 years of lost income.

      Let me lay it flat for you 12:05. ASU is a shittier school than UCLA and the job market is much worse now than it was 7 years ago. You are soooo screwed.

    3. There are ONLY 3 kinds of people who should even consider law school:

      1. Those who get into a T14 - there are still problems but the odds are on your side.
      2. Those who get full scholarships at any school - you'd still be out COL and 3 years of your life, but what the hell.
      3. If you have a parent who owns a law firm.

      If you are NOT in one of those categories, cut your losses and run.

    4. Look, if you're an incoming 2L, you should look at your grades and determine if you are in the top 10% of the class. If you are, take a crack at OCI. If not, you should consider bailing out now. And if you do go through OCI and don't get an offer, that is really time to bail unless you have the heavy-duty connections needed to bull your way into a job.

    5. To ASU 2L:

      I take it you are about $15K in tuition debt and another $15k for room and board. Maybe some was paid from savings and parents, so perhaps $15K to $20K in debt at end of 1L. This is a tiny amount of debt in the scheme of the world and your life. Easily repayable from non-legal earnings over a reasonable period of time.

      You do not mention whether you have contacts within the legal industry to obtain a job reliably upon graduation and passing the bar. If you do, it is much to your advantage. BUT you should speak with those contacts and confirm their interest. Hopefully, any such contacts are close enough that you will be able to speak frankly about your prospects and you can trust what they tell you. Also, you won’t be out of school for 2+ years-will your contact still be in their current postion??? If that person is no longer employed, so goes your career prospects there, perhaps.

      What is your undergrad degree? Can you obtain employment with it in a field you would enjoy? What pay level? Adequate to make a living and live independently, perhaps after 6 months or a year of “getting started” and living at home? Can you live at home?

      I take it, you your scholarship is being applied to out of state tuition, both 1L and now, at least first semester 2L. You need to ASK and CONFIRM with ASU if your scholarship will be applied to in state tuition for second semester 2L. You need to KNOW how that works and INSIST the answer is in writing.

      What is your class standing? Are you on law review and Order of the Coif? If both, much better, if neither, very difficult to get consideration from employers in today;’s market. They all look for something to distinguish applicants.

      It is no longer a matter of “quitting” and such. $100,000 of non-dischargeable debt and no job, or even a job paying $45,000 to $50,000 is pretty much condemning oneself to 10 or 15 years of near poverty in making loan payments. You will need a place to live, food, a car, office attire, health insurance, auto insurance, perhaps some entertainment. These things will eat up $50K in the blink of an eye-remember you will have a $8K or so income tax bill out of the $50K.

      Not going back for 2L is a very attractive option if you are not both on law review and Order of the Coif, or at least finding out if you can take a year off and still return, would give you a year to try something else-and perhaps serve as leverage to get the in-state tuition you want. I hate to say don’t go back, but with what I now know, I would at least try to sit out a year, and if that can’t be done, I would not go back due to the extraordinary cost and terrible job prospects.

      My 3 children are not lawyers-I would not support their going to law school. They have seen my life. I have nearly 40 years of practice and I would not do it again. There are many other, much more enjoyable things to do for 70 hours a week.

      Fortunately, with respect to my kids, they are not nearly as literate or as well-read as me and would not have done well in law. One is a radiologist, the other a civil engineer. The third is working on mechanical engineering.

      Radiology holds a good future. The engineering degrees? Well, “we learn as we go.” (The Cotton Club)

      Good luck. Let us know your decision.

    6. Whatever you decide, do not take on more debt than what you can reasonably expect to earn as your salary upon graduating. Unless you get a big law job, that will mean no more than 40-50k. If you are not in the top 10% of your class and/or if keeping your scholarship is conditioned on GPA then it's probably better to cut your losses now.

    7. It's a poor decision. Arizona State is a toilet. Please don't tell me that it is in "Tier 1". By sensible standards, it is in Tier 4.

  6. Two wrongs (an undergrad degree in useless crap and a law degree from a shithole) don't make a right.

    If you majored in Literature or phys ed, you can still get a decent job starting out at 45K per year in a lot of industries. A lot of employers only care that you have a BS and that you're not an annoying fuckup. If you start at 45K in an enry level job that means you can work your way up to make much more. But you have to work hard and get results. You do that you make yourself more indispensable. If you're too good for an office job making 65K-75K, fuck you. Go to law school. Get raped. Jump off a cliff and die.

    1. What's with the anti-humanities degrees here? Science (excluding engineering, dental, nursing, and medical) is worse for outcomes. There aren't many sci jobs out there and the degrees aren't as flexible.
      No matter how low the pay, as long as you are doing some kind of office work, the humanities degree has just as much ability as a sci degree.

    2. Very true. Most degrees are worthless.

    3. There are so many obs for science majors, I have no idea what you're talking about

  7. "Time's up." -R. Riddick to lemmings

  8. this site does make a difference. As a pharmacy school victim, I talk to pre-pharm people about the dead-end of pharmacy--after some moments of panic, they go back to their pre-pharm plans.

    However, in solidarity, I also try to dissuade pre-law people. I have had some success, after they have seen the constellation of scam blog sites, particularly this one.

    Keep up the good work!

  9. If you aren't enrolled in a top law school, shitlaw is your best hope. Making $50K and working 50-60 hrs a week. No thank you.

    1. This is why I ran away overseas and will let the system eat up my 300k debt.

      Freebird 3000


    Check this stuff out here. Bankruptcy and education loan reform, Indiana Tech rejection, etc.

  11. I have a friend in her late 40s who had her own health care consulting business for 15 years. She made at least $150k and was her own boss. In 2011, she asked my opinion about going to law school. I told her HELL NO stay away. She enrolls in a tier 4 shitter and just graduated top 10% with law review. Her legal experience includes federal clerkships and in house work. Guess what????? She still has no job offers on the table. It is highly likely she will return to her prior business.

    The bottom line is that nothing will stop a special snowflake or lemming.

    1. I think it's safe to say that being in your early 50's with a newly minted law degree from a 4 tier dung heap can only mean solo practice in shit law. Good luck with that. What company is going to invest in training you when you are only a few years away from passing away?

    2. They don't even want to train 26 year olds with their entire careers ahead of them lol.

    3. Well, being of a similar age, I hardly expect to die in "a few years".

      But I can confirm the scourge of age-based discrimination. I kicked ass at an élite law school yet still got only a few interviews, while the dumb little rich kids at the bottom of the class got jobs in white-shoe firms.


    Back on February 18, 2010, the Columbia Student News Blog featured a staff piece labeled “Law School: As Bad as You’ve Heard.” The article itself is not worth more than a square of single ply toilet paper. However, the comments provide a gold mine of insight. Take a look at the selected remarks below:

    "Frank the Underemployed Professional” wrote the following on February 18, 2010 at 9:29 PM:

    “If you can't gain admission to a top 20 or preferably a top 14 law then don't bother. Even going to a top law school can be a gamble today because if you can't find a position shortly after you graduate employers will regard you as a complete loser and you could lose the entire economic value of your law degree while still having over $150,000 worth of non-dischargeable student loan debt.”

    User “Ted” posted this response on February 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM:

    “If you go to anywhere outside of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, then it is too risky to go to law school. Sorry but the unemployed with a ton of debt applied to all schools now. Of course, law school for many is a place for people with no marketable skills anyway so what would you expect?"

    Here is an eye-opener from someone using the handle “Yeah right” – back on February 19, 2010 12:06 AM

    “Graduated in the top 3% of class, top 20 school, law review, 5 years of biglaw, unemployed for 18 months, losing the house, and wife leaving.

    Think you're safe? I did too.”

    Yes, that is uplifting, right?!?! Remember, reality is not influenced by your hurt feelings or your complete inability to comprehend basic facts.

    Anonymous poster, on February 19, 2010 at 8:35 am:

    "I go to a lower T10. 50% of the 3Ls don't have jobs."

    That is a reference to a top 10 law school, ignorant lemmings. This was the situation at his “in$titution of higher education” MORE THAN five years ago, moron. This is not a recent phenomenon – and the U.S. lawyer job market has not magically improved. Nor will it do so, by the time your stupid ass graduates from a second tier sewer, third tier commode, or fourth tier trash can.

    1. Absolutely brutal. And if you don't have a good job by graduation the chances of ever getting one become worse and worse as time goes on. If a full year goes by, forget it, your legal career is probably over before it even started.

      But that's not the only way it can be over!

      Losing your legal job and not immediately having another one lined up also can drop you permanently out.

      As well as doing something like doc review for a year or longer. That will destroy any experience you may have had beforehand and kill your resume permanently.

      The constant scrambling to be employed reeks havoc not only on your resume and self esteem as well as finances, but it will make it difficult to have good, recent references as well, which is normal for most in the working world to have. And even if you did stay at a place long enough, law is unique in that it hates giving out references, as most lawyers hate each other's guts so are uninterested in actually helping each other.

      This is an awful profession. It's been bad for over a decade now, but it truly melted down in 2008 and it's never coming back at all.

      We are long past the point where anybody that has done any research would have chosen not to go.

      Law is an aristocracy profession. If you are a member of the aristocracy, it barely matters where you go and what you do. If you aren't, it barely matters where you go because nobody will let you do anything for too long.

  13. I was at Walmart on my lunch break - it's right across the street from my job and the deli section has a pretty good selection of sandwiches and stuff, better than a convenience store at least - and a guy in the checkout lane had on suit pants and a tie. A bit overdressed for rural midwest.... he left the store before me, and was driving past the door just as I was exiting the store. He had a Florida Coastal School of Law window sticker!

  14. Can you make a "fifth tier ______" and put Indiana Tech and maybe one or two other schools in it?

  15. And allow me to add: SHITOIL used to offer six figure salaries to waterheads from flyover state TTTs, but with the price of oil now at 50 bucks a barrel, the work is gone. I get five applications a day from recent law grads and 3-5 year lawyers for support level work.

    I trash them, universally. I won't ever hire a lawyer unless I need legal work.

  16. I had a childhood acquaintance that I had stopped speaking too. We had a falling out. I remember we both were thinking of law school and when I started researching I found TTR. This was five years ago. I showed my friend the website and told him I was having doubts. He told me I was being "ridiculous" and would tease me saying "oh, you read it on the internet, so it MUST be true" and laughed. Anyway, I did more research and backed out and kept my office admin job ($40k/yr.). He decided to go and I told him to reconsider during the whole process. He called me a "hater". He ended up going to a private T2 with no scholarship. Definitely a special snowflake who thought he was going to take over BigLaw and "make bank". He would always say the line "It's not about the job market now, it's about the job market in three years." and make economic forecasts.

    He graduated two years ago. I hadn't been in touch with him. During that five years I saved over $80k cash living at home and got promoted to office manager. He went and lived in the dorms at his law school out of town.

    Don't you know, I heard through a mutual acquaintance that my old friend was working as a bar tender and moved back home! I was shocked and had to see for myself.

    The reasons we stopped talking were enough for me to want to rub his face in it. Long story. Suffice to say he insulted members of my family and talked sh*t about me behind my back while he was in law school. When I called him out on it he said "yeah, so what".

    Anyway, I walked into the restaurant bar and sure enough spotted him talking to another server. He didn't see me coming. I casually walked up to the bar and he turned and saw me. I took him by total surprise. I looked at him and then at his vest and name tag. He was so embarrassed. I kind of felt bad about the whole thing afterwards because I was smirking and wearing a business suit. But I just think back to how he ignored all my warnings, called me a "hater", and generally talked sh*t about me and my family because I was a dissenting voice five years ago and raining on his parade.

    All I said to him was "i'll take a heineken." He grudgingly got me the beer and then literally disappeared to the other end of the bar and never came back down my end. I stared him down a little while but he kept his back to me and the bar got crowded and I realized he wouldn't come back and confront me.

    I say this because I realized walking out of there that that could have been me behind that bar. TTR saved my life guys. I googled a law school five years ago and this blog came up. The blog admin here should get a presidential medal of freedom, that is how noble his work is. I'm choking up thinking how close I came to going to law school with my friend and walking down that plank.

    Life comes down to a few keys decisions and a few moments. This is one of those moments. DON'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL. Whatever you spent on a seat deposit is PEANUTS to the sure hell that awaits 95% of you upon graduation.

    You can be a bar tender without a high school degree.

    1. The thing about law school is that there are just enough "winners" in every class to convince EVERY lemming that they will be a winner. Law school is one hell of an expensive way to learn that you are not an automatic winner and that you should always consider the downside of a potential investment.

    2. Congrats on your decision not to go to law school and to your discipline in saving that much money and in being mature enough to live at home while doing so. You are an inspiration and example to the rest of us.

    3. There have to be a few winners. If everyone lost, the scam would be obvious. People wouldn't buy lottery tickets or go to casinos if they were certain to lose. But they'll gladly part with their money for a tiny chance of winning, even though the expected outcome is dreadful.

  17. Somewhat OT: Has anyone else here read that novel "Ready Player One" by Ernest Cline? A somewhat dystopian future a few decades from now, with things on planet Earth just getting worse and worse... but the reason why I'm mentioning it here is because I was reading the part where the hero gets dragged off by a big corporation to serve "Indenturement" or whatever they call it for his massive outstanding debts... and it eerily reminded me of the document review dungeons as told by L4L, Tom the Temp, and so many others here in scamblog land. In fact, it reminds me of the whole student debt crisis in general. Maybe that's the idea...


    Back on October 7, 2013, Erin Fuchs posted a Business insider entry entitled "This Sad And Hilarious Flow Chart Will Convince You Not To Go To Law School." Here is the text of her piece:

    "A Connecticut lawyer named Samuel Browning has created a massive flow chart listing all of the terrible reasons people want to go to law school these days.

    That chart was based on the book "Don't Go To Law School (Unless)" by Paul Campos, which outlines the very few good reasons for getting a J.D. in the current market. Matt Leichter published the flow chart on his Law School Tuition Bubble blog, and he and Browning have given us permission to republish it here.

    As you can see, Browning's chart could deter the lion's share of lawyer hopefuls from even taking the LSAT. Check it out for yourself:

    [a series of epic graphs]"

    When you scroll down, after laughing to yourself because you know that Mr. Browning nailed this "profession" perfectly, you will see a small sub-heading labeled "Good Reasons to Attend Law School." It has one listing - for those who have: (a) seriously researched this garbage field; (b) worked in law for at least one year; (c) have an independent basis for knowing what happens in this glutted industry; and (d) know what type of area they want to practice in, and that it is an attainable goal. Sadly, the vast majority of morons who enroll in law school have not taken any of those four steps. The pigs and cockroaches who run these filth pits and cesspools like it that way.

  19. So, we are nearing Fall, and law schools aren't COLLAPSING en masse, as they should, and 0L students are making arrangements to go off to law school in a few weeks seeking fame (and make someone else's fortune) and fortune. Their parents are thrilled and their professors are ecstatic-and their spouses and children. Homes are being mortgaged by parents and grandparents, and condos and vacation homes are being purchased by professors. It is the American Way, and legislation only confirms the propriety of it all. Thank God for LAW! And its comforting reassurance that “all is well.”

    I have lost track of the percentages, of the 45,000 0Ls, or so, headed to their financial deaths, perhaps 15,000 to 20,000 of them, will NEVER have a law job??? Well, even 17 of them is too many. I know, and the medical industry “loses” only a miniscule percentage of its graduates. There is no forgiving what the law school industrial complex has done to so many children.

    I once bought a house for $130,000, never recorded the deed, never moved in, moved to another state, changed my name, changed my fingerprints, grew a mustache, shaved my head, then swapped heads with a llama (changing species ought to help, huh?)…got caught anyway, and still had to pay.

    THEN, I decided to remediate my pathetic situation and I went to law school.

    All not true, for me, but true for roughly HALF of the 0Ls headed to a law school near you now.

    I have been following Third Tier for some time, several years. NO law school professor thriving on the largess of law school students has stepped up to defend the law school industrial complex. Where are they?

    WHY? Silence is “golden.” And they are collecting the gold.

    (Among my friends, I am considered a “moderate.”)

    38 year solo

    1. though a miniscule number of licenses physicians don't practice medicine, the sheer dehumanizing, self-destructive hell of the training enterprise takes out, anecdotally, about 7 percent. Those 5 percent suffer way more debt and psychological trauma than a typical failed law grad.
      Yes, there is a golden ring at the end of medicine; but you have to want it more than you love your wife and kids...


    Back on January 8, 2011, David Segal's epic piece "Is Law School a Losing Game?" appeared in the New York Times. Look at this portion:

    "Tuition at even mediocre law schools can cost up to $43,000 a year. Those huge lecture-hall classes — remember “The Paper Chase”? — keep teaching costs down. There are no labs or expensive equipment to maintain. So much money flows into law schools that law professors are among the highest paid in academia, and law schools that are part of universities often subsidize the money-losing fields of higher education.

    “If you’re a law school and you add 25 kids to your class, that’s a million dollars, and you don’t even have to hire another teacher,” says Allen Tanenbaum, a lawyer in Atlanta who led the American Bar Association’s commission on the impact of the economic crisis on the profession and legal needs. “That additional income goes straight to the bottom line.”

    There were fewer complaints about fudging and subsidizing when legal jobs were plentiful. But student loans have always been the financial equivalent of chronic illnesses because there is no legal way to shake them. So the glut of diplomas, the dearth of jobs and those candy-coated employment statistics have now yielded a crop of furious young lawyers who say they mortgaged their future under false pretenses. You can sample their rage, and their admonitions, on what are known as law school scam blogs, with names like Shilling Me Softly, Subprime JD and Rose Colored Glasses.

    “Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”

    Do you still want to take the plunge, waterhead?!?! Tens of thousands of recent law grads before you, many of whom are a hell of a lot smarter than you and went to better schools, have been FINANCIALLY RUINED by their decision to obtain a "legal education." The info regarding the law school scam has been out for SEVERAL years. If you fail to heed the warning, then you deserve your fate.

  21. This blog helps me cope with my ex who left me and states "I need to focus on law school" Goes to a third tier school in glutted Cali with over 170k in debt plus interest. I probably saved myself from acquiring that debt if things got serious. I try to convince her about the reality of law school, but she thinks she's that special snowflake.

    1. I can tell you exactly what happened to my ex after her experience during and after 4T law school: she drank a bottle of wine every night, coffee during the day, an occasional pill here and there, terrible mood all day and ended up sleeping around with guys who lend her money to pay her bills.

    2. Hope that unfortunately doesn't happen to her. Heard she got a 2.9 gpa overall after 1L, but is still considered top half of class... in a third tier in california. Not so sure if thats considered efficient enough for jobs ?

    3. 2.9 GPA after years of dropping LSAT scores, and still is in the top half. Think about it; ten years ago she would probably be in the bottom third of her class. Jobs? She still has 2 more years left and has to pass the bar. And then has to get a job that pays enough to pay her loans, rent, car, insurance, food, cell phone, doctor, clothes, cat, etc. Good luck with that.

    4. Heard she got a 2.9 gpa overall after 1L, but is still considered top half of class... in a third tier in california.

      Top half of the class might be acceptable at Stanford. At a third-tier, you have to be at least top 10%, more likely top 5%, in order to get interviews at firms.

  22. Top 15 on a full ride (or close to it) or bust. End of story.

    What is wrong with these 0Ls?

  23. Nando,

    You gotta cover AZ Summit Law you did a few years back before it changed it's name from Phoenix School of Law (can't confuse this prestigious school with U of Phoenix afterall) to Arizona Summit. Summit was chosen as an accurate representation of the mountain of debt they place on their almost minority-majority class! at around 42k/year in tuition alone they compete with two competent (albeit mediocre) State universities one of which is moving right down the street from Summit in a nicer high rise. Arizona Summit actively combs internet search aggregates to eliminate negative press but the light needs to be shined!

    Keep up the good fight.

  24. Wow! What a tremendous collation of whiners and whines on this blog. This collection must get a Darwinian Award for self-terminating lawyers.

    1. To the piece of trash above, i.e. August 20, 2015 at 7:14 am:

      Today marks the sixth year of this blog. I have beaten the law school pigs to a pulp for the last 2,191 days - with hard facts, industry statements, NALP employment summaries, U.S. Bureau of Labor charts, etc. What have you done, other than buy into the "higher education" big lie, bitch?!?!

      You are free to ignore the following facts: (a) law school is too damn expensive; (b) there are FAR TOO MANY grads for the available number of attorney openings each year; and (c) the U.S. lawyer job market is GLUTTED and shrinking due to advances in technology. When you graduate with a TTTT law degree and $143,612.83 in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - and you are stuck earning $35K per year - don't complain, cockroach. You were given fair warning, waterhead.

      Pull your head out of your ass and get a life, mental midget. Enjoy a lifetime of debt servitude, while your "professors" rake in $180K annually - for 4-6 hours of "work" per week, moron.


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