Friday, September 18, 2015

First Tier Tortoise Droppings: University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law

Tuition: Arizona residents attending this outhouse full-time will be charged $24,500 in tuition, for the 2015-2016 school year. Out of state, full-time law students at the Univer$ity of Arizona will be slapped with a $29,000 tuition bill, for 2015-2016. Who wouldn’t want to take advantage of these bargain prices?!?! By the way, these costs are relatively low in comparison to most law schools.

Total Cost of Attendance: The same document also provides living costs for those enrolled in this toilet. Books and loans fees add an extra $1,300 to the above-listed amounts. Housing, miscellaneous expenses and transportation account for another $19,750 to the tab. As such, the trash heap lists total COA as $45,550 for in-state students and $50,050 for non-resident.

Keep in mind that the law school swine – at all ABA in$titution$ – base these costs on an academic calendar. Since actual law students will require living expenses for the entire year, we will prorate the following items: housing, miscelleneous, and transportation. Doing so, we reach the more accurate, total COA figures of $52,133 and $56,633, for Arizona residents and out of state students, respectively. Even though this school has taken measures to decrease tuition, likely in response to fewer applicants nationwide, these costs are still prohibitive – unless you come from a wealthy family.

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, the Univer$ity of Arizona Jame$ E. Roger$ Commode of Law is rated as the 42nd greatest, most remarkable and sensational law school in the entire damn country. In fact, it only shares this distinction with three other ABA-accredited diploma mills. What an incredible achievement in “higher education,” huh?!?!

Published Employment “Placement” Statistics: Let’s review this commode’s Employment Summary for 2014 Graduates. There were a total of 144 members of this class. Of that figure, 125 were employed in some capacity within 10 months of earning their JD. Four grads did not provide their employment status to the hags. This equates to an 89.3 percent “placement” rate, i.e. 125/140.

You will also notice that 11 “lucky” graduates – from the Class of 2014 – were placed in law school or university funded positions. Certainly, the school did this in order to boost a bunch of careers and not as a cynical attempt to artificially inflate their employment figures, right?!?! Coincidently, if these jobs were not included the placement rate would have been an anemic 81.4%, i.e. 114/140.

Lastly, under Employment Type, you will note that only 47 members of this class reported working in private law firms, within 10 months of graduation. How would YOU like to attend the 42nd “greatest” law school in the land, for a 32.6 percent chance to work in private practice, i.e. 47/144? Here is the breakdown: 23 grads in offices of 2-10 lawyers, five JDs in firms of 11-25 lawyers, four working in offices of 26-50 lawyers, two graduates in law firms of 51-100 attorneys, one JD employed in a office with 101-250 lawyers, and six working in firms of unknown size. In short, only three members of this cohort reported working in offices of 251-500 attorneys, while another three grads were employed in firms of more than 500 lawyers. Still like your odds of landing Biglaw, lemming?

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the University of Arizona JD Class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school - as $95,533. Fully 78% of this school’s 2014 cohort took on such foul debt. Remember that this figure does not include undergraduate debt – and it also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled. 

Conclusion: This school may be ranked as the co-42nd “best” law school in the nation. However, the job prospects for MOST of these students and graduates are still piss poor. Who the hell wants to incur an additional $120K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a likely salary of $40K-$55K per year?!?! Good luck putting food in the fridge, paying your utilities and other necessities, and sustaining yourself on that sum – while trying to repay your student loans. 

In the final analysis, the “law professors” and administrators are paid up front, in full – while you, the student and recent graduate, are left holding a big-ass bag of toxic debt. Enjoy your memories of Carbolic Smoke Ball and Pennoyer v. Neff, while you are busy pouring lattes or answering the phones at Red Roof Inn. While you are struggling to feed yourself – even while employed – these “educators” will be laughing all the way to the bank.  Hell, they won't even give you a second thought.


  1. "In Mississippi, the pass rate on the July exam plunged 27 percentage points, from 71 percent in July 2014 to 51 percent this year."

    1. It's nice to know that my generation and the next may be composed primarily of indebted morons trying frantically to pay off millions of dollars in federal loans using their Burger King assistant manager paychecks. Maybe they can even lecture a roofing crew about the Erie Doctrine while they are in for lunch (The crew members, ever single one of which makes more net income than most of our J.D. Heroes, will not be dumb enough to go to law school).

    2. Senate is contemplating double the annual H1b visa pool. This on top of the 400k/year family sponsor cap (love chain immigration), unlimited education related visas, 50k 'lottery,' X thousand green cards, and who knows what other hidden visa numbers out there.

    3. The next generations aren't going to college anymore, so there's that. The media and the Boomers are busy shaming them, but it doesn't look like it's working as well as it did on us.

      College attendance is overwhelmingly female now, and that's probably because of the scholarships and grants women are getting to go to college. Take those away, and I bet the drop in attendance rate is even worse (as people are wising up to the scam).

      I wonder when immigrants will stop coming to the US. That's when you really know it's over.

    4. It will never happen. Third world people are used to working in the black market of the economy. I think India has only 5%, probably all gov employees, that actually pay tax. If America goes to crap, immigrants will still have large clan families, family financing of business to draw upon to make a quasi-legal business.

  2. That turtle turd has better job prospects than most JDs coming out of this place.

  3. Where does one even begin?

    A plunge of 27%.

    A law school whose graduates manage a 51% bar passage rate.

    Perhaps a new metric standard would be a comparison of law school's graduates bar passage rate compared to that state's barber college licensing passage rates. Nothing against barbers, we all need them, and they do honest work and, in my opinion, far likely to be satisfied in their job. And, I think my barber makes about as much as me-and golfs 3 days a week. I don't.

    U.S. News & World Report law school v. barber college licensing passage rates. Perfect.

    So, where is the prestige-of-the-law now? Pomposity dealt a death blow? Arrogance slathered in fire-retardant foam? Hubris on dry ice? Freeze-dried?

    Is this not the trickle flow through the base of the dam?

    The Emperor and his new wardrobe…

    What a mess. Many schools will fail. It is beginning with these statistics.

    1. Bar passage rates for U of A law are currently 93.86% in Arizona.

  4. I do not remember my Law School's bar passage rate, but I believe it was 92% (it has been 40 years ago, it may have been as low as 88% but no lower). My law school was a Land Grant University law school. A major, public institution. Tough to get into, but not Harvard, Yale, etc. But still, the quality of students was high and the bar passage rate high, correspondingly.

    I taught real estate and business law at a junior college for 10 or 12 years. Not a big deal, academically, but if only 51% or my students passed the course, I would have been APPALLED. AND PROBABLY FIRED (tar and feathers might have been another decorative accouterment.) I don't recall a single student not passing the course.

    I do believe that the law school industrial complex cares not one whit about the students and their outcomes. Why should any of them? And perhaps many do, but wither in their concern knowing they can do nothing realistically to assist the students.

    "The cream rises to the top, and the others will find their way somehow."

    That is the law school view, I believe. They will sink or swim.

    Well now, most sink. And they will suffer so.

  5. Such a failure portends many more.

    The quote of Winston Spencer Churchill comes to mind:

    "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

    There is light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how long the tunnel may be.

    A for-profit engineering school in my town suffered a 900 student decline in enrollment this Fall. Tuition is $31,000 per year. Around a 4 million dollar decline in revenue. Programs are being cut back.

    As a "wealthy lawyer" of 63, I cannot afford this school and my child is enrolled at a junior college for about $600 a year tuition, not $31,000. ($31,000 would be more than one third my gross income, before tax-do the math.)

  6. Law professors have never really been lawyers and they look down on hate lawyers. Students come to law school to be lawyers. Think about that.

  7. Four percent (6/144) of the graduates landed real jobs?

    Four (4) freaking percent.

    How can they sleep?

  8. My neighbor went to UA law school. Graduated about 3 years ago. He manages an auto parts store in flyover country.

    Law degree from non-elite school = shitty investment

  9. Let’s take a look at some of the toilet’s dual degree program$.

    “Dual Degrees

    Students considering interdisciplinary research or dual degree programs have the benefit of attending one of the strongest universities in the nation. The College of Law offers the following established dual degree programs: the JD/PhD in Philosophy, Psychology, or Economics; the JD/MA in American Indian Studies; the JD/MA in Latin American Studies; the JD/MBA; and the JD/Masters in Public Administration; the JD/MA in Gender & Women’s Studies, the JD/MMF in Finance, the JD/MS in Agricultural Resource Economics, and the JD/MPH in Public Health.”

    Scroll down to the following excrement being offered by the school:

    “The JD/MA in American Indian Studies prepares students to provide legal representation to Indian tribes, tribal organizations and individuals on a wide range of matters including civil rights, water rights, gaming, economic development and taxation on Indian lands. A minimum of 27 units of graduate coursework in American Indian Studies, plus nine units of specified law coursework and clinical work, are required for the 36-unit M.A. in American Indian Studies. Students may transfer 15 units of American Indian Studies coursework toward the 88 units required for the J.D. The J.D./M.A. in American Indian Studies is a four year program.

    The JD/MA in Latin American Studies prepares students to practice law, particularly in the Southwest border region, with a depth of understanding of Latin American history, culture, and Spanish or Portuguese language skills. A minimum of 21 units of graduate coursework in Latin American Studies, plus 15 units of specified law coursework and clinical work, are required for the 36-unit M.A. in Latin American Studies. Students may transfer up to 12 units of Latin American Studies courses and seminars toward the J.D. degree. The J.D./M.A. in Latin American Studies is a four year program.

    JD/MA in Gender and Women’s Studies prepares students to practice law with an understanding of the historical and cultural dimensions of gender and feminism, as well as the interconnections of gender, law, and public policy, both nationally and internationally. A minimum of 21 units of graduate coursework in Gender and Women’s Studies or other graduate electives, plus 15 units of approved law coursework, is required for the 36-unit MA in Gender and Women’s Studies. Students may transfer up to 15 units of Gender and Women’s Studies courses and seminars toward the JD degree. The JD/MA in Gender and Women’s Studies is a four year program. Students spend the first year of study in the law school.”

    Who wouldn’t want to spend another year, in the pursuit of such a strong and amazing “credential”?!?! I’m sure that law firms will throw huge sums of money at these graduates! Does anyone with an IQ above room temperature believe that the “educator” pigs care about these historically oppressed groups – other than as a way to extract even more money out of enrolled suckers?

    1. Those worthless programs serve only to dupe people into paying an extra year's tuition.

  10. If professors were to spend even just a little bit of time outside of the ivory tower, they would quickly realize that course offerings and dual degree programs need to be totally revamped.

    1. Most of them have, and they just don't care.

      They are only concerned with their own paychecks.

      This is just how academia in the US works. It's just a scam to benefit academics. Obviously nothing in higher education is useful to a person's life. It's all about getting a paid job of some sort, but the vast majority of students will not get stable careers and certainly their degrees won't pay off. That didn't stop the establishment from insisting on that bogus $1M premium and shaming anyone that questioned it.

      Law school is just the most egregious offender, but certainly by no means is it the only one. In fact a large chunk of law students go to law school precisely because their undergrad degrees had failed them. When things are functioning well most people would rather collect a paycheck at a decent job than get more education. That is why when the economy was strongest most people didn't even bother completing high school, after all, why bother when you can start earning income right away and building a career? Then as the economy got worse people had to get college degrees, then further graduate degrees, and I have no idea what the next step is, but there is a limit to how much education can be forced onto people.

    2. The system does not encourage professors to get exposure outside of the ivory tower and that likely will never change.

  11. Check out the Law School Numbers profile on the dung heap known as the University of Arizona James E. Rogers Commode of Law:

    “Arizona Law School Admissions

    Arizona Law School is considered a Competitive law school, which accepts only 40% of its applicants. Comparatively, Arizona is Lower than the average cost for law school.

    Class of 2019

    Applications: 1372
    Offers: 547 (39.87%)
    Matriculated: 109 (7.9%)
    25th percentile GPA: 3.28
    Median GPA: 3.52
    75th percentile GPA: 3.79
    25th percentile LSAT: 159
    Median LSAT: 161
    75th percentile LSAT: 162

    While these numbers seem impressive, keep in mind that the employment outcomes are weak for graduates of this toilet. As noted in the main entry, only 6 members of the JD Class of 2014 – out of 144 people – were hired by law firms with more than 250 attorneys. Still like your odds, Dumbass?!?!

    “Arizona Law School Employment

    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The University of Arizona class of 2014 had an employment rate of 83% with 3% pursuing an additional degree.”

    Yes, what an elite in$titution of “higher learning,” right?!?! If you are attending a third tier commode or fourth tier trash can, then you will face much weaker job prospects than JDs from the Univer$ity of Arizona.

  12. Nando congratulations on the longevity of your blog. I remember when you started this blog in 2009, the law school deans and professors labelled the "scam movement" critics as bitter lunatics. Now it's the deans and law school professors that are advancing "conspiracy theories" about how the NCBE is making the bar exam harder in an effort to curb the number of lawyers in the bar. Of course the low bar passage rates have nothing to do with the fact that law schools have reduced admissions standards across the board so as to admit morons. I suppose the law school deans will also say that the LSAC is in cahoots with the NCBE to frustrate their efforts to "educate" tomorrow's lawyers. Don't be surprised if the law school pigs use this bar exam "crisis" as a reason to implement a 4th year of law school which will be devoted to teaching rubes how to pass the bar exam. At this point, nothing surprises me of these greedy pigs.

  13. Nando,

    Where does LSN get those numbers? 2019 hasn't been enrolled yet. Are they estimates? Use the most recent 509 LSAT GPA numbers for the schools you look at. I suspect the actual numbers will be worse than the LSN estimates.

  14. As a student at this toilet, you will have the unique opportunity to write onto something called the Arizona Journal of Environmental Law & Policy. From the online descripTTTion:

    "Who We Are

    The Arizona Journal of Environmental Law & Policy (AJELP) is an interdisciplinary online publication that examines environmental issues from legal, scientific, economic, and public policy perspectives. Our student-run journal publishes articles on a rolling basis with the intention of providing timely legal and policy updates of interest to the environmental community. We believe that the form of an article or written work should follow the author’s research, thinking, and style, and our editorial staff strives to help authors refine their work and make it accessible to our broad and growing reader base.The Arizona Journal of Environmental Law & Policy (AJELP) is an interdisciplinary online publication that examines environmental issues from legal, scientific, economic, and public policy perspectives. Our student-run journal publishes articles on a rolling basis with the intention of providing timely legal and policy updates of interest to the environmental community. We believe that the form of an article or written work should follow the author’s research, thinking, and style, and our editorial staff strives to help authors refine their work and make it accessible to our broad and growing reader base.The Arizona Journal of Environmental Law & Policy (AJELP) is an interdisciplinary online publication that examines environmental issues from legal, scientific, economic, and public policy perspectives."

    In sum, you can wipe your ass with this publication. That is the best use for this garbage journal. Then again, perhaps high-end law firms will climb over each other – in order to hire you. However, there is a greater likelihood that an oak tree will fall and land on your head.

    1. Does anyone know how many 2014 and 2015 grads from this school are actually practicing environmental law?

    2. Don't forget that "environmental law" usually means "anti-environmental law" working for industries such as mining, energy, and the like.


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