Sunday, October 11, 2015

Cockroach Nest Cooperative: Wayne State University Law School Partners With Oakland University to Offer Shorter Path to TTT Law Degree

TTT Alliance: On October 5, 2015, the Detroit Free Press published a David Jesse article that was entitled “WSU Law, OU to offer shorter path to law degree.” Take a look at this opening:

“Oakland University and Wayne State University Law School are partnering to allow law students to get their law degree a year quicker. 

The schools will announce the partnership today that will shorten the time needed to get a bachelor's degree and a law degree from seven years to six. The move will save students a fullyear of tuition — about $13,350. 

Under the agreements, students would start at Wayne Law during what would be their senior year at Oakland University. Students would transfer 30 credits from law school courses back to OU to meet bachelor's degree requirements. 

To apply, OU students must have completed a minimum of 75 credits in an approved undergraduate degree. The bachelor of integrative studies is the first program approved for the partnership. It is expected that the list of majors at OU eligible for the partnership will expand as the program moves forward.” [Emphasis mine]

It’s nice to see that students can now earn two worthless-ass academic degrees in six years, as opposed to seven, under this garbage agreement. These credentials will doubtless qualify you to sell insurance policies and stock shelves at Wal-Mart.

Two paragraphs later, the piece continued:

"We are thrilled to work with Oakland University to offer their students this unique opportunity," Wayne Law Dean Jocelyn Benson said in a news release announcing the move. "Being able to complete their undergraduate and legal education in a shorter time frame will allow these students to get a jump start on their careers and begin making a difference as legal professionals even sooner." 

Students who have completed their OU requirements must apply by June 1 to begin taking classes at Wayne Law in fall 2016.” [Emphasis mine]

Of course, Pig Benson is happy to partner with a local college, in an effort to scam more students. These bitches and hags will do and say anything, in order to avoid performing an honest day’s work. Telling young people that they will jump start a non-existing career is unethical. When these JDs are earning $35K per year, the jackals will not be held accountable for their lies.

The TTT AnnouncemenTTT: On October 6, 2015, the trash pit known as Wayne $TTTaTTTe Univer$iTTTy Sewer of Law posted a news release labeled “Oakland University, Wayne Law partnership offers fast track to bachlor’s plus law degree.” Check out the following excrementitious excerpt:

“Students will be able to earn both a bachelor’s degree and a law degree in six years through a new partnership announced today by Oakland University and Wayne State University Law School.

Traditionally, earning a bachelor’s degree followed by a law degree would total seven years. With this agreement, students will transfer 30 credits from courses at the law school back to Oakland to meet bachelor’s degree requirements.

To apply, Oakland University students must have completed a minimum of 75 credits in an approved undergraduate degree.”

Students will save a year of time and tuition. However, they will have the following brown stains permanently smeared on their resumes: Oakland University, BS and Wayne State University, JD. Yes, what employer wouldn’t offer these lucky grads $100K salaries, right?!?! Hell, they might even throw in a company Cadillac CTS and the NFL Sunday Ticket! [Disclaimer: nothing of this sort will happen.]

Now scroll down to the concluding paragraph, to see an academic swine’s crass attempt at humor:

"Margaret E. Winters, provost and senior vice president at Wayne State University, said, “It will be a pleasure to welcome these well-prepared students from Oakland University to Wayne Law. They will be able to continue their education in a setting where they will be prepared for what we know will be rewarding careers.” [Emphasis mine]

Who is this rodent kidding?!?! Large swaths of Michigan are economic dead zones. There are five ABA-accredited diploma mills located in the state – and one of them has several branches. The only good school located is the University of Michigan Law School. Do you think that YOU, as a Wayne $TTTaTTTe alum can compete against those grads for legal jobs and good non-law positions?!?!

Conclusion: In the final analysis, Wayne State University Sewer of Law is a festering stink pit. It is currently ranked as the 105th greatest, most remarkable and illustrious law school in the entire damn county – by US “News” & World Report. Imagine how many doors you will be able to knock down – on your way to dominating corporate America – armed with two crusty diplomas from these premier “institutions of higher education”! If you can’t figure out that this plan is designed for the benefit of the “educator” pigs, including the administrators, then you are an incredibly dense mark. Taking on incredible amounts of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a chance to enter a GLUTTED “profession” is not a bright idea. Try not be too stupid, lemming.


  1. The wonderful world of higher education:

  2. I used to have confidence in myself. My hands are shaking as I type this. I went to law school when I was 30. I have an older brother whose a doctor. So I felt some pressure from friends and family to not just be a manager at a department store. The thing is I was making $70,000 a year doing that.

    So like an idiot I went to law school. I got a partial scholarship too. But I couldn't get anything coming out of law school. I mean I couldn't get shit. I consider myself talented. I can play the violin and piano and I fluently speak French and Italian. I was even top 10% of my class after 1L (barely). Problem is I went to a second tier law school. And yes I should have known better. But it's still an accomplishment to finish in the top 10% of your class. Do you know how fucking hard you have to work to get in the top 10%? Most people have no idea.

    And yet it meant shit. I took a legal aid job after 6 months of graduating from law school. Guess how much money I made? The salary was $32,500. I kid you not. I was workign on matters for poor Sioux Indians, most of whom were ungrateful drunkards. I worked my ass off for that $32,500 salary too. You can make more money digging ditches and pulling weeds. Don't go to law school. Don't even bother with this shit.

    1. Just want you to know your pain is shared here.

      It has been a brutal, horrible path for many. Your story will help end it.

      I am 40 years a solo, and totally exhausted, and enraged that the fraud continues and children are destroyed. (22 year olds are children relative to 50 year old law professors.)

      The more stories are told here, the greater the chance this will end.

      All viewers, please post. I have, dozens of times.

    2. This is exactly my story. I am 51 and a solo and I have no peace. All I think about is the decision I made 29 years ago. My family collects public assistance now. I have no retirement, and a huge student loan nut.

    3. I can relate to this.

      I'm 40, and I'm living paycheck-to-paycheck. My current employer routinely pays us over a week late. I've been looking for other work, but I could not even get an interview unless I first confirmed that I had a portable book of business to bring with me. Further, all the work I do is brainless "cut-and-paste" type tasks that any high school student could do.

      Sadly, I started off quite strong. I went to a prestigious undergrad, and then started a PhD in bio-statistics from an even more prestigious school. I switched to law because I did not like how scientists were constantly begging for funding, and also many of them could not find work.

      After a prolonged depression, I recently sat for the GRE. I will be returning to school within the next two years. I've decided to become a high school teacher.

    4. Let me jump in too. I can't say I have anything resembling a career and have pretty much given up. Law was a very poor decision, not just financially, but also mentally and emotionally because of the shame, depression, anxiety and other associated issues you get from higher education and lifelong poverty.

    5. 46 year old solo sharing the same frustration and pain. Pissed away a great inheritance on a TTTT law degree that barely landed me a few shitlaw gigs. I work other temp jobs just to keep my practice in business, but am looking to get out of law altogether. There's just not enough money to go around anymore, and there's no point in deluding myself with hopes that things will ever get better.

      I count my blessings that I'm not up to my ass in debt or dealing with an alcohol and coke problem. But it really sucks having to tell my wife and family that I can't land any paying clients no matter how hard I hustle. It's that feeling of failure which really tears at me, and I truly regret my decision to enter this horrible buisness (It's not even worthy of calling itself a profession anymore).

      Good luck to each and every one of you who have shared their experience here. If anything, I feel less alone.

    6. If I could do it all over again I would not have gone to law school. The work is interesting and you really can have a positive impact in people's lives. But there are way too many lawyers fighting over the relatively few people who can afford to hire a lawyer. It is a race to the bottom--whoever has the most aggressive marketing and advertising plan will survive, and no one gives a fuck about how good a lawyer and counselor you are.

      The law schools and the ABA have done a tremendous disservice to the profession and the public by dumping huge numbers of JD'S into a job market that has no room for them.

    7. These stories are compelling and real. I'm guessing that professors and deans aren't familiar with them. I welcome any ideas on how to get these experiences in front of them. I know there is great disdain for professors/deans, but it seems entirely plausible that they just don't know how things actually are given that they're so removed from the real world. And to the poster above, it's clear that you're not alone and that is one of the reasons why this blog is so valuable.

    8. I'm 63 and living paycheck to paycheck.

      No, I don't get a paycheck. I have a general account and if there is money in it, I can spend it, except the portion the IRS expects.

      Any idea what life it is NOT to get a paycheck. A paycheck means you will get another in 14 days or thereabouts. You can spend the whole damn thing knowing another will come. I have never had that luxury (well for 2 years or so, I did). I have always had to hold back on spending because I have never had confidence I could make a sustainable living.
      I went more than 10 years without health insurance due to lack of income.
      I have had about 28 weeks of unpaid vacation-in 40 years of work. I am about 132 weeks of vacation short.
      Thanks to those solos who have posted here to give their story.
      It is important that they do so, and I invite anyone else to help paint the picture for the 0L's.

      They need the benefit of our experience.

    9. 10:34, they definitely know how bad it is, but simply don't care. That's why they committed fraud when they lied about employment statistics for decades. Law schools are part of the larger next coming financial crisis which are the toxic, fraudulent, $1.3 trillion in bad loans the government has written so far. Law schools are admitting tens of thousands of students every year when the job market cannot absorb them, and even worse, most of them can't even pass a basic competency exam. This won't blow up for a few years or even a decade, but eventually fraud and idiocy collapse over time.

      The best I can do is dissuade others from going to law school unless they meet one of the narrow categories listed at the top of this website. Law school ruined my life and tens of thousands of others as well. The ABA leadership is laughing about this and simply do not care. The professors don't care either. It's a disgrace what rich, lazy, sociopathic Harvard and Yale educated lawyers have done to this profession.

    10. It's gotten bad enough for me that I wonder at times whether I am Autistic or have some sort of disorder. The especially sad part is that SSDI generally pays out more than doc review does these days, and even shitlaw.

      Reading some of these other posts is therapeutic if only to see that others are struggling too, and it's this awful profession and not necessarily myself (and others posting either). That's a huge thing honestly.

      I thank everyone that posts their stories and shows sympathy to those of us in this plight. It's hard, it really is, I just don't think non-lawyers understand how hard it is to be in this type of position.

    11. To the OP at 11:37 AM: Wow, that's quite a story.

      Actually, if I can make a suggestion? I know I'm just tossing out ideas here, but you said that you can do the violin and piano, AND you're fluent in French and Italian? Why not get a part in a musical band or orchestra, or maybe a job as a translator or interpreter? Why not teach either music or foreign languages? Why not compose some musical pieces or write poems or whatever in those languages? Maybe even bring the musical and linguistic stuff together and compose entire songs in those languages? (For that matter, can you sing?)

      If you were to go the musical route, you could always record and publish your own original work for profit. The website Bandcamp is particularly user-friendly and doesn't take that much of the profits.

      I hope I've tossed some helpful ideas out there. Good luck with everything.

  3. "Good news: Here's a shorter path to crippling debt and an unhappy life! Kiss your chance for a happy marriage, house of your own, and a decent job goodbye even quicker!!!"

    Now, who in heck wouldn't take that route?

    1. Exactly, "shorter path-crippling debt."

      My law school debt in 1978 was $1,500.


      My payment was $32.82 per month. My first job (2.5 years out of law school-a lot like todayl) paid $12,600 per year. My debt was insignificant.

      I spoke with a retired colleague. His annual tuition was $110.00 PER YEAR. About 10 years older than me. My annual tuition was $1,100 PER YEAR. I made $800 during the Summer to pay my tuition. As I have written here many times, if you can make enough during the Summer to pay 8/11ths of your law school tuition, you do not need a law degree, as you are doing much better than me after 40 years of practice.

      Please, do not go to law school.

  4. I'm FROM this town and can readily assure you the only kids who belong going to WSU for law are those that a) will be working for their Dad; b) are capable of ending up in the top five percent of their class at the end of 1L; or c) retirees looking for something to do other than collect their Ford Motor/police/municipal/federal pension and can afford to dabble in the law.

    The law school there is a fair-to-middling third tier terlet that has sunk into the dismal triple-digits of USNWR rankings. The medical school, engineering, nursing school and some others are just fine, but the law skool is a cesspool of horrific outcomes for most of its innocent victims.

    Avoid at all costs.

    1. Please drop (b) from the list.

    2. 50.3 % of 2014 grads had real attorney jobs 10 months after graduation. Looks like a coin toss to me LOL.

  5. I was at a party the other night and this chick introduced her boyfriend. She mentioned he was in law school and the reaction from everyone that heard was "Oh." You could hear a pin drop. Even I squinted. That's how far we've come. It wasn't that long ago when people might be a little impressed, if for nothing else that it signaled some intelligence. No longer is that the case. Bam! Now people view such a decision as stupid.

  6. Most industries are shit now. Truck driving = shit. Teaching K-12 = shit. Manufacturing is dwindling and is shit. Law = shit.

    For the most part unless you're a doctor or federal employee, you're fucked. Although I do know a few guys that own their own landscaping companies and they make bank. My older neighbors use the same landscaper. I took a day off last week. I was talking to one of my neighors and I talked for a minute to the guy who was running a crew on my neighbor's lawn. He said he owned the company and had 3 crews. I asked how much he makes and he said he made $120K last year. And unlike with lawyers when you ask how they're doing this guy had the ring of truth to his claim. The guy drove a 2016 Ford Super Duty. Clean interior. I see a lot of older lawyers driving 20 year old Buicks. But yeah, like, you know, law school is a great investment and stuff.

  7. You're going to see an explosion of these programs in the coming years. I used to work at a law school, and they were trying to get a 3+3 program approved with main campus for years. I understand it's in the final stages of approval now. The law school has also been trying to partner with area colleges without their own law schools to offer 3+3 programs. I expect they will fully leverage the ABA rule that allows them to waive the LSAT for up to 10% of the entering class, assuming a high enough UGPA.

    Here's another shady program that you'll see exploding soon, too - 2-year JDs for foreign lawyers. That is, if you have a law degree from a foreign law school, you can go to an American law school for 2 years, get your JD, and take the bar exam. My ex-employer is now offering such a program. It's a great way for them to fill seats without damaging their entering class credentials.

  8. You're going to see an explosion of these programs in the coming years. I used to work at a law school, and they were trying to get a 3+3 program approved with main campus for years. I understand it's in the final stages of approval now. The law school has also been trying to partner with area colleges without their own law schools to offer 3+3 programs. I expect they will fully leverage the ABA rule that allows them to waive the LSAT for up to 10% of the entering class, assuming a high enough UGPA.

    Here's another shady program that you'll see exploding soon, too - 2-year JDs for foreign lawyers. That is, if you have a law degree from a foreign law school, you can go to an American law school for 2 years, get your JD, and take the bar exam. My ex-employer is now offering such a program. It's a great way for them to fill seats without damaging their entering class credentials.


    On October 6, 2015, something called the Oakland Press featured a Paul Kampe piece that was labeled "Oakland, Wayne State universities partner for accelerated law degree." Check out the following excerpt:

    "Oakland University officials announced a partnership Tuesday with Wayne State University which will allow law students to shave at least a year off their college experience.

    The agreement will allow students to earn bachelor’s and law degrees in just six years by taking courses at both schools, rather than seven years, according to a press release announcing the partnership.

    “Oakland University is proud to offer this partnership with Wayne Law,” James Lentini, senior vice president for academic affairs and provost said in the release. “Our students who are aspiring lawyers will be able to pursue their dreams more quickly. We also recognize that saving a year of college tuition will reduce the financial burden for these students.”

    The agreement will launch in fall 2016 and students hoping to capitalize on the schools’ relationship are required to apply by June 1."

    I laugh to myself whenever I see these fake-ass photo ops, from the law school pigs. Law students are NOT wearing business suits to class. Men certainly are not donning vests over their damn shirt and tie. Sunday dress is not the apparel of choice for pupils. In fact, most students are wearing T-shirts and jeans. You’ll even see many guys in sandals and shorts, as if they are at the beach.

    Regarding the article, it’s funny how the rodents note the savings of one year of “higher education.” When these students graduate with two garbage degrees from separate toilets, will it matter if they owe $110K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – as opposed to $125K?!?! Good luck paying back either amount, when you are stuck making $38K per year, Dumbass.

    Apparently, James P. Lentini of Oakland “University” is proud to steer many of his unsuspecting undergraduate students to a certified dung heap, where they will incur large sums of additional student debt - for anemic job prospects. He evidently wants to re-enact the tale of the Pied Piper of Hamelin, this time leading away young people to the rats.

  10. Wayne State law school should be closed immediately. Its deans should be jailed and its professors forced to make restitution for their unearned gains.

    The top 20% of the class should be allowed to transfer to Michigan State. The rest should be graciously informed that due to the closing of the law school, they will not be liable for any life-destroying debts.

    1. Detroit College of Law is worst in Michigan. Cooley is a decent law school. MI Governor and a few U.S. congressmen went to Cooley.

    2. Oh, yes, indeed. Cooley is the second best law school in the whole US. Cooley says so itself!

  11. The Report of the ABA Task Force on Financing a Legal Education, issued on July 17, 2015, deemed these three plus three programs to be among the promising “innovations” that are “being planned and/or instituted to meet increasingly important challenges.” (The 14-member Task Force included three law school deans and was chaired by the InfiLaw National Policy Board Chairman, which provides some hint of its perspective).

    The Task Force Report stated:

    “A number of schools have instituted so-called three-plus-three programs that allow qualified students to complete their undergraduate and law degrees in six years instead of seven. The program at the Sturm College of Law even includes an option allowing highly qualified high school seniors to apply for its three-plus-three program as they apply to the university for undergraduate admission. In addition, a number of schools without their own law schools are entering into three-plus-three agreements with nearby law schools. LeMoyne College in Syracuse, New York, for instance, has three plus- three agreements with law schools at Syracuse University and at Fordham University.”
    (Report, p. 12)

    I believe that the reason law schools are enthusiastic about a seemingly meaningless gimmick like these these three plus threes is that it facilitates the recruitment of college juniors rather than college seniors (or, much younger in the case of Slurm). A college junior has one year less experience, maturity, and impulse control than a college senior– indeed, some are still actual teenagers.

  12. As one of the posters noted above, Wayne State University Law School yields mostly poor results for the majority of its students. Sadly, too many people go to law school, to this day, as a default because they just don't know how to remedy the fact they have a useless BA. They don't really know what law practice is about (and how sordid it can be!). Perhaps worse, they are unaware they are about to make things worse by acquiring the scarlet JD!

    I would agree potential students, especially those contemplating a lowly school like Wayne for law, in a prestige-crazy industry to boot, need to think very, very carefully about their "investment."

  13. When will law schools start enrolling ham sandwiches?

    1. Brooklyn Law School already tried that, but it didn't go over too well with the other students.

  14. What kids today don't realize is that the legal profession is undergoing an interminable dustbowl. The "bread and butter" practice areas of DUI, bankruptcy and real estate have dried up. The meat and potatoes of solo practice (i.e., personal injury) has also dried up. When I first started practicing law, I worked at a 10 lawyer shop PI case. The owner of the firm had a boat and never showed up to the office unless he needed money. One time, he came in on a Monday and held a meeting. He started the meeting by yelling: "As soon as I leave the office, you motherfuckers better get on the phone and start dialing for dollars. If you assholes don't settle 30 cases by the end of the week, I am going to have to fire 3 of you!" So the firm's attorneys settled about 40 cases that week for chump change just so the firm could stay afloat for another month. And this was during the heyday of personal injury where you could get on the phone and settle a fender bender for $40K easy. Nowadays, Geico, AllState and the others would rather take a case to trial and lose rather than pay a PI lawyer a red cent. And we all know 99% of PI cases contain bullshit injuries.

    When you consider the price tag of a law degree with the waste of 3 years, going to law school is one of the worst decisions you can make. BigLaw is feeling the pinch as firms are seeking to merge or cut back on staff just to keep PPP stable.

    This six year program is a marketing gimmick. A T14 school (I think it was Northwestern) tried this gimmick and it failed miserably.

    1. You could have graduated from a shithole such as NYLS in 1985 and still had a chance to do well. If you didn't mind doing PI or representing criminal scum that is. Maybe even do okay doing OWIs.

      Fast forward 30 years and your chances are shit coming out of places like U of Minnesota which is usually T20. Tort reform took away most chances at punitive damage awards. Insurance companies used to settle $30K cases with a phone call, maybe a second one, and a big fucking check. Now these guys will fight you tooth and nail for an $8K auto case like two starving dogs fighting over a raw steak. This profession was also a hybrid, with a few well connected rich kids going to Harvard and getting federal clerkships and a Biglaw gig and a bunch of peons getting by on shitlaw. Now the cocksuckers at the top have outsourced most doc review and Legalzoom has taken care of most of the rest.

    2. ...and even if you get BigLaw, the life expectancy there is, much like that of medieval serfs, "brutal, nasty and short."

      Law is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie, the right to bust your ass in pursuit of the big money, while hoping to survive long enough to actually learn to practice before the inevitable canning. Unfortunately for many BigLaw people, they get dumped only to find they can't really operate effectively in sh!tlaw, with devastating results.

    3. L. Grayson Pendleton IVOctober 12, 2015 at 5:56 PM

      I'm sorry you guys didn't apply yourselves enough. I have only a bachelor's degree and I'm on several corporate boards and charitable committees. Better luck next time.

    4. Tort reform killed that moribund pony.

      The practice of shitlaw has gotten more difficult, especially with google. Now, everyone that comes in through the door thinks they know more about the law than you do. Your clients will second guess you every step of the representation and consult (i.e., tire kick) other lawyers behind your back. Don't believe me? Look at how many suckers spend hours on Avvo posting legal answers for FREE to questions posed by laypeople. Those lawyers give free advice in order to tweak their Avvo rating (pro-tip: buy a premium package if you want a perfect 10) so they come off as SuperLawyers (which is another joke publication that rates lawyers in accordance with how much they are willing to dole out on ad space). Moreover, clients just don't want to pay anymore. They will fight you on fees. I see young kids trying to break into PI by reducing their cut from the customary one third to one quarter or even as low as 18%. It's a fucking race to the bottom and anyone dumb enough to buy a ticket to try to enter this profession is either an idiot or reckless.

    5. 1:26 pm--you are completely correct--agree 100%

      6:27pm--also agree, this is one more example of how the Internet is ruining us as a culture. It is all about puffing and self aggrandizement as opposed to humanity and competence. And don't get me started about callers who demand a "free consultation" and expect free advice with no intent to hire me.

    6. …Grayson Pendleton 4th removed from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil…

      Not having a J.D. simply disqualifies you from "ringing in" here. You may be a fine guy, but if you have not matriculated at, attended, graduated from a law school, and passed the bar exam, you have no damn idea of which we speak (actually, write).

      Law school is, as another poster here said, is completely different from any other professional school.

      You are NOT taught how to practice law. You can't even pass the bar exam after graduating law school. It takes YEARS of practice to actually become competent as an "attending physician." The problem is shit law does not mentor or train newly minted lawyers. No one has the time, or training to do so. They have their own paying work and newbies are left to make it on their own.

      Grayson, Pendleton, 4th removed from the well-spring of knowledge and wisdom, you are no match for me.

    7. I have seen exactly what 6:27PM describes. Potential clients are always coming into the office with "articles" they printed online, usually from a legal blogger who doesn't know shit (e.g., Keith Lee from Above the Law who writes about a plethora of legal issues despite that he hasn't been practicing for long and did not graduate from an ABA accredited law school). These "clients" will argue with you for hours (if you let them) about how some asshole who practices law in Bumblefuck, Alabama interprets the application of a statute in New York. To me, this is the unauthorized practice of law but the bar authorities aren't going to chase after some lawyer in another jurisdiction so YOU are stuck arguing with a client who doesn't know any better who is citing a no-nothing prick from another state who is just as clueless as the client.

      For this reason, I never believed in the concept of free consultations. Only assholes who don't appreciate their time give free consultations. You don't see doctors or legitimate professionals give out their time freely. Why should you? The only exception for free consultations in the legal industry is for personal injury where the lawyer is shopping for the perfect million dollar case (which is so rare these days). If you advise people on matters such as criminal, family, bankruptcy, immigration, etc. on a free consultation basis, you are cheaper than a $5 whore.

    8. PART 2

      Put it another way, do you see law professors volunteering their time to give out free consultations? They begrudgingly hold office hours for students despite getting paid for it. They talk about pro bono and ethics but these cocksucking bitches go on with their "do as I say not as I do" sanctimonious bullshit.

      I have a friend that works for a company that targets unsuspecting lawyers. They build websites and promise to do SEO tricks to ensure you come up first in your area of practice. This is a known scam and so many young newly minted lawyers are falling for it. Trust me, the people looking for lawyers online are looking for the cheapest one. They don't care about whether you made law review or published some insipid article about gender and the law or critical race theory. All they care about is whether you can beat a DWI charge for under $500.

      To illustrate how ungrateful clients are, I will tell you a story about what happened to a friend of mine 10 years ago. My friend is a criminal law attorney who was hired to represent an illegal alien who was charged with first degree RAPE. He was facing 12-15 years of hard time with imminent deportation upon completing his sentence. My friend knew the prosecutor and that office was too backlogged so the client was offered a sweet plea: plead guilty to endangering the welfare of a minor, get 5 years probation, no hard time. The victim apparently was a family relative so the family was ok with this. The client took the deal on the spot. Prior to accepting the deal, the Court cautioned the client that the plea deal could bring adverse consequences to his immigration status since he was illegally here. The client waived his rights and took the deal.

      Three years later, the client marries and Puerto Rican woman and files for US residency. At the interview, the client is arrested, detained and deported. Within months, my friend was served with a "Losada" complaint alleging he committed malpractice in "encouraging" the client to take the plea deal. In other words, they alleged he fucked up the case by telling the client to take a lesser charge and have no jail time rather than take the chance at trial, get convicted and get sentenced to 12-15 years. My friend had to hire someone to represent him and although he was cleared (he was saved by the fact that at the plea hearing, the client was advised in Spanish of the immigration consequences of taking the plea deal), my friend's malpractice insurance jumped from $4,500 a year to $15,000 the following year based on that one complaint. The kicker was that my friend defended himself out of pocket and did not bother his malpractice insurance company. the malpractice insurance company considered this a failure to report and penalized him.

      Kids, this profession is a fucking mine field. All the stories you heard of TTT grads making bank happened 25 years ago. Nowadays, maybe you hear a rare anecdote of success but 99% of law grads coming out now are fucked--they just don't know it yet.

    9. I agree with you that the practice is difficult. This kind of beef goes with the territory. I represented a client who used vulgarties to the judge and he still beefed me to the bar. Like your friend, I was immediately cleared. My mal practice only cares about LIABIITY not an Ethics beef that went nowhere. Your friend an you have it wrong. Actually, the concept is called INEFFECTIVE ASSISTANCE of Counsel. Change insurance. I don't think you have to disclose.

    10. "Difficult?" Merely so?

      It is a minefield, and if you are not very smart, conscientious, diligent, honest, personable, Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful… (some of you know the drill), and truly lucky, you will have disciplinary complaints filed against you and/or malpractice lawsuits. I am all of those and more, and I have had 4 disciplinary complaints made against me. About one every ten years. All dismissed upon my reply to the initial complaint. About 40 hours of work to reply to each. An unpaid MONTH. And, the clients did not pay me, so I lost about another $40,000 of billings. And I did perfect work.
      Again, "difficult?"
      I would never get a J.D. if I had to do it over again.

  15. Oakland University is a pretty good name around here. They have in recent years built the Beaumont School of Medicine, and are on the upswing overall. So they probably thought they would "double down" in a way by associating themselves with a law school.

    As civilians, i.e., non-lawyers in the Administration over at Oakland U., they probably have no idea what a low-ranked cesspit Wayne Law is, and probably already wish they could undo this. Civilians have no idea how different law school is from other professional schools, and how important the differences are between law school tiers. Unfortunately, they will be funneling unsuspecting students into this meat grinder, guilty by association with this third-tier travesty of a law school.


    Back on October 21, 2014, JDU poster “heythere” started a thread labeled “Law Schools for Sale: Wayne State University Slashes Prices.” Here is the entire discussion below:

    "heythere (Oct 21, 2014 - 10:27 pm)

    "Wayne State University's Law School will freeze tuition next year and give a scholarship to every incoming student in a move designed to make a law degree more affordable, while boosting sagging enrollment at the Detroit school."

    fmllawyer (Oct 22, 2014 - 1:16 am)

    Wayne State junior Eric Lloyd, 22, of Detroit likes the idea of a tuition freeze. He's a business major, but is considering law school.

    "It's so expensive to go to law school and if you go, you almost have to get a corporate job to pay off all that debt," he said while studying on Wayne State's campus Monday. "Anything to hold down cost is good."


    That's precious. Eric thinks corporate jobs are available for Wayne grads. Adorable.

    jstalin (Oct 22, 2014 - 10:49 am)

    Wayne State's bar passage rate was 67% in July 2013."

    Yes, what a “prestigious” law school, huh?!?! Surely, the Supremes are just dying to hire recent graduates of this sickening cesspool as law clerks! Hell, the world is their oyster – as long as they can figure out how to repay an additional $90K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, while earning a pittance.

    US “News” & World Report lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Wayne $TTTaTTTe Univer$iTTTy Law Sewer Class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school - as $79,881. Fully 86% of this school’s 2014 cohort took on such toxic debt. Remember that this figure does not include undergraduate debt – and it also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.

    1. Someone needs to tell Eric Lloyd that only half of grads from this school get any real attorney jobs at all regardless of salary. I don't know how many get jobs that would allow them to service a six figure debt but I bet it's in the low single digits.

  17. There's a comment above about finding a way for professors and deans to learn about the stories of students who have been mired in debt, etc. What's the best way to make that happen?

    1. Anyone who is not psychotic or living in a cave for the last 7 years knows the deal. The law profs and deans know perfectly well what the score is. They will ride the federal student loan gravy train for as long as they possibly can because it is in their financial interest to do so.

    2. I don't know. Maybe some know the facts but many may be completely oblivious. There should be a way for the information to get out to more people.

    3. Come on man, there is no way they don't know. It's willful ignorance and outright denial, and has been for decades. The irony is that these law professors can tell you why the "ostrich" doctrine doesn't apply legally, but they refuse to apply that concept to themselves and any moral or ethical duty to students.

      Campos has been banging the drum for years, and he is one of them. They could easily just speak to him, and I'm sure they're aware of him (that's how these circles work).

      Instead they have been fighting him or ignoring him, because as BamBam states, it is in their financial interest to do so.

      I don't want to single out academics as awful human beings, there's a lot of that to go around really, but I can't imagine a worse group of people right now. I remember back in 2009-2010 seeing some quotes from traders stating they didn't think they'd ever see anything more unscrupulous than the financial collapse of 2008, but then they looked at higher education in America and thought it was even worse.


    Let’s take a look at the Law School Numbers profile for the dung heap known as Wayne $TTTaTTTe Univer$iTTTy Law Sewer. Enjoy!

    “Wayne State Law School Admissions

    Wayne State Law School is considered a Somewhat Competitive law school, which accepts only 54% of its applicants. Comparatively, Wayne is Lower than the average cost for law school.

    Class of 2019

    Applications: 818
    Offers: 436 (53.30%)
    Matriculated: 148 (18.1%)
    25th percentile UGPA 3.10
    Median UGPA: 3.37
    75th percentile UGPA: 3.60
    25rh percentile LSAT 153
    Median LSAT: 156
    75th percentile LSAT: 159”

    These numbers are weak. The commode admits those with 3.10 undergraduate GPAs and 153 LSAT scores. Keep in mind that law school applicants typically have Humanities and soft science backgrounds. It’s easy to earn high marks when you major in Political “Science” or History – especially in this era of grade inflation.

    Scroll down to view important outcome data:

    “Wayne State Law School Employment

    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The Wayne State University class of 2014 had an employment rate of 86% with 2% pursuing an additional degree.”

    This figure includes legal, non-law, full-time, part-time, long term, and short term positions. For the purposes of the NALP and ABA, if you had a job at PetSmart or Allstate within 9-10 months after receiving your JD, then you are considered employed. It doesn’t matter that these positions do not require a law degree. The pigs want to take credit for “placing” their grads into paid employment, in order to make themselves look more effective.

    Those who have gone through this nonsense fully recognize that the “Career Development” hags work hard to help those in the top 10 percent of the class, i.e. the ones who need the least amount of assistance. The swine typically host a few Power Point presentations or provide some handouts regarding potential employers for those with less impressive grades. For $ome rea$on, during orientation and the application process, the cockroaches “forget” to mention that most job openings posted on Simplicity require at least 3-5 years of experience as an attorney. Then again, the students are a mere mean$ to an end.


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