Thursday, October 15, 2015

Villanova University School of Law Continues to Get Flushed, Despite the Commode’s Supposed Honesty


http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20151014_Villanova_law_school_paying_a_price_despite_doing_right.html

The Toilet’s Struggles: On October 14, 2015, the Philadelphia Inquirer published a piece, from Chris Mondics, under the headline “Law Review: Villanova law school paying a price despite doing right.” Take a look at this opening diatribe:

“Honesty is the best policy, goes the childhood refrain.

But it can come with a price. Just ask Villanova University School of Law, which is finding that the truth still hurts years after it acknowledged a handful of administrators secretly manipulated admissions data of incoming first-year students.

Before disclosure in early 2011 of the admissions fraud, which was perpetrated to boost the school's ranking in the U.S. News & World Report annual survey, Villanova was comfortably positioned among the nation's top 100 law schools. It was known for producing some of the region's best lawyers, and many of the leaders of Philadelphia's most influential firms had gotten their law degrees there.

Villanova is still within the top 100, but its U.S. News ranking has plummeted 20 places since the disclosure to No. 87 in the newly released 2016 ranking. 

And it has had to spend lavishly to stay in the ratings game since it became known that the law school supplied falsified GPA and LSAT scores to both U.S. News and the American Bar Association for an unknown number of years before 2010. 

Nearly 20 percent of Villanova law students now attend tuition-free, under a generous scholarship program that has been a big draw for top students. It has blunted some of the effects of the scandal, but has cost the school millions of dollars.” [Emphasis mine]

Don’t feel sorry for the law school pigs at this “institution of higher learning.” They helped produce too many damn graduates for the available number of attorney job openings, for decades, and they never missed a wink of sleep over this situation. Only now, when the swine are feeling some of the effects, do the bitches and hags want to bring attention to the “crisis.”

It’s funny how the “educators” turn a blind eye, when the students and grads are fed into the meat grinder of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt and pathetic job prospects. Yet the moment that the overcompensated cockroaches are affected, it is suddenly a tragedy. 

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+6

Average Law Student Indebtedness, Class of 2014: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Villanova Univer$iTTy JD Class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school - as $95,297. In fact, 83% of this school’s 2014 cohort took on such putrid debt. Remember that this figure does not include undergraduate debt – and it also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.

Looking at the figures above, it is clear that the rodents need to work a little harder on lowering the debt burden of their precious students/victims, by providing them with more scholarship dollars. Then again, this is a mere selling point, in order to lure in more unsuspecting lemmings. 

http://www.pabarexam.org/pdf/statistics/july/j2015.pdf

Bar Passage Rate for the Class of 2015: On page three of this PDF, you will see the following date for the Vanillanova University SOL, for the July 2015 Pennsylvania Bar Examination:

1st time bar takers: 153
Successful: 129
Unsuccessful: 24
Pass rate: 84.31%

This exceeds the overall first time bar pass rate on the Pennsylvania Bar Exam, which stood at 78.26 percent. However, getting a law license does not necessarily equate to legal employment. There are legions of unemployed attorneys, across this country. MANY of them have never represented a client who paid for their services. Dispensing free legal advice to friends, associates or the weird guy at the bus stop doesn’t qualify. 

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanova-law-school-knowingly-reported-inaccurate-information-to-the-aba/

The Conduct in Question: Back on February 4, 2011, Elie Mystal wrote an epic ATL entry entitled “Villanova Law ‘Knowingly Reported’ Inaccurate Information to the ABA.” The initial paragraph sums it up nicely:

“In a letter just released to students and alumni of Villanova University School of Law, Dean John Y. Gotanda admits that Villanova Law knowingly reported inaccurate admissions information to the American Bar Association, for years prior to 2010.”

Conclusion: In the mind of the legal academic, being honest about one’s dishonesty makes one honest. The fact remains that Villanova Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law has a reputation that is lower than rat piss. The rodents falsified entering class LSATresults and UGPAs, for the purpose of gaming the rankings system, i.e. the KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY perpetrated this scheme, in order to puff up their USN&WR ranking. They knew that artificially inflating their number would lead to more applications from those with high scores in the future and better quality in enrollment. Now, the bastards want a cookie for “doing the right thing.”

37 comments:

  1. I graduated from Villanova Law in the early 90's. Whatever hit it's reputation has taken as a result of the scandal in 2011, the fact of the matter is, Nova was never anything more than a mediocre law school. It was true when I graduated and it's certainly true today - if you don't graduate in the top of the class and lack employment connections, you are going to have a very difficult time finding a legitimate legal job coming out of VLS.

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  2. The article says Villanova is "paying a price" for its honesty, but the rankings drop is not a reaction to the scandal per se. Rather, Villanova is now ranked where it should be (and where it would have been) based on the real numbers; the previous ranking was based on fraudulent data, so why should the school expect to return to that level?

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  3. Don't mean to offend any Villanova people, but the school always had the reputation of recruiting stupid, rich kids from the Main Line area outside Philly.

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  4. Not even a full-tuition scholarship makes the cost of attending this place worth it unless you live with your parents.

    Seriously, kids. Don't go into debt to attend a third tier toilet. It's just not worth the risk.

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  5. University of Illinois did this too. It is interesting that they are still highly ranked. As late as the turn of the century, USNWR mattered little. So there was no gaming to do. Everybody got jobs, work was decent. Even if a solo hit hard times, a Public Defender job was a back stop. Today, a PD is a GREAT GIG. The real problem is that there is no work for a great number of attorneys, newbies and veterans. I don't know why we put so much stock into USNWR. When I was a high school debater, we used to call it US News and World Distort. It is only a magazine, something we get greasy during breakfast and throw in the recycling bin when finished.

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    1. I'm not sure it was great since the 70s, but certainly it got worse as you mention and there's not much left to this field anymore for unconnected schmucks.

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  6. The best time to go to law school was 30 to 40 years ago, when tuition was dirt cheap and there were plenty of jobs even if you graduated from a shithole.

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    1. I graduated 25 years ago from what Nando refers to as a TTT in the lower quarter of my class and I still had three job offers at decent salaries. You are absolutely right. As long as you passed the bar on the first try, you made it into an esteemed profession and State Farm paid claims!

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    2. And if that failed, you got doc review at $50-70+OT consistently on year long projects.

      As long as something as awful as doc review has bargain basement wages and can be "selective" it means the "profession" is truly in the gutter.

      And the saddest thing is doc review pays more than shitlaw. Even with doc review's low wages and downtime.

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  7. If the scamsters at Villanova were honest, they'd shut their toilet down. There is no honest way to run a scam like Villanova.

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  8. And as Nando and other contributors have pointed out, schools like Nova will give you the chance to be a desperate solo. And the common thing among small law practitioners? The few clients you actually get don't want to pay you-ever, no matter what you do-and will go to great lengths not to pay you-such as, filing a groundless grievance in the hopes of avoiding paying any legal fees for work done. What a great profession.

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    1. This goes along with the territory. This is not why the profession sucks today. It sucks today because the value of our law degrees has been diluted by desperate ABA law schools pumping 50K of us yearly since 2005 when not a single new lawyer was needed. It also sucks because govts at all levels across the nation has laid us off in droves, pushing up legal unemployment. Its a structural issue, not a horrible client issue..

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    2. No doubt there are structural problems, but can't totally agree with you-if you're a desperate solo/small law lawyer, your clients are generally horrible. Most will take hours of your time, totally unafraid of negotiating your fee and then walking if the price isn't right. And if you're desperate enough, you take the case, no fee upfront, and never get paid. A friend works at the PD's office; they get calls daily-and walk-ins too-of clients of private lawyers expecting the PD's office to represent them in grievances(that's right) against the private practitioner who represented them so they don't have to pay. Yes, it's a glamorous profession.

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    3. I agree. Sometimes the only way to get paid is to outright "threaten" the client in a diplomatic way. Tell them that every judge will know that you didn't pay a lawyer. When I withdraw, I have to tell judge you didn't pay. Judges don't like that. Its obvious logic, even to a mope on his sixth DUI. Or give them a payment plan and that usually does the trick. . CLIENTS are not the problem with the legal profession. It is the law schools, ABA, and lack of jobs/work

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  9. Which law school is a bigger piece of motherfucking shit? Villanova or Temple?

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    1. Villanova for sure.

      Temple is dirt cheep by comparison, and its job placement is better. So even if you can't find a job after graduating Temple, at least you have a halfway decent chance of paying back your loans.

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    2. Hey-don't forget Drexel!

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    3. Wow, that's insane. Im not even from PA and I thought Temple was the most expensive uni/corp in the nation. I was shocked at their pharmacy scam prices.

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  10. October 15th @6:16pm: I would pick Villanova. If you work in Philly proper, the alumni network of Temple leaves Villanova in the dust.

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  11. Actually, the Villanova PA BAR pass rate overall is 81.48 % 9All test-takers included.)

    Also interesting is that RuTTTgers-Camden is only marginally better than Widner-Delaware and Widner Harrisburg campuses when ALL test-takers (including repeats) are included. When ONLY FIRST-TIME test takers are included, RuTTgers-Camden is last!

    RuTTTgers-Camden is also LAST in Pennsylvania area law school July 2015 results. LAST in first-time test taker results. And also LAST in overall results.

    Since South Jersey has such a shitty and awful legal job market as does Philadelphia, it must really suck to be a RuTTTgers-Camden law grad.

    DON'T GO THE TUITION ALONE IS $25,000 per year!

    What a joke!

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  12. It's a disgrace that the school is open after committing fraud. I can't feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to go there.

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    1. I agree. There comes a point at which people have to take responsibility for their actions. The admission to fraud showed everyone just exactly how horrible this toilet is.

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  13. I graduated from the Villanova ce$$$chool some 25 years ago. Even then, top 10% got big law jobs in Philadelphia, next 10% got into midsize firms—usually with a family connection; the next 15% got hired by slip and fall firms or did other bullshit plaintiff work. The rest didn’t practice law at all, but (if they got lucky) worked in compliance positions for banks, insurance companies, or in bank trust departments. Failing that the well to do Main Line boys and girls got hired into their family business. Woe to the poor schmuck without family wealth or connections.

    Since then, things have only gotten much worse. Most big firms are contracting (look at how much office space firms like Drinker Biddle or Reed Smith lease compared with 10-15 years ago). Plaintiff work is diminished with the passage of tort reform, and the State of Pennsylvania’s crackdown on work comp abuse. Now even top regional law school grads face more competition from national trap schools like Georgetown, GW, or even Northwester.

    Even if a graduate starts in big law, most will be bounced out within 3-4 years. The big ass firm corporate clients want to be represented by a name brand partner from HYS or Penn, not somebody from a regional or local toilet. An associate of mine also graduated law review from Villanova only 5 years earlier and got into big law. She got downsized to mid law, but at least still practices. She recently got together with a number of her law school classmates, and she was the only one of her cohort still practicing law.

    Finally, great that the top 20% get free tuition. They are most likely to get (at least temporary) big or mid law position to fund their debt service payments. Those down the food chain paying full freight will likely never work as attorneys. Just say no to this absurd scam!

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    1. You've make a good point about compliance jobs-10/15 years ago, these mostly went to lawyers(yes, they were a type of "JD Advantage" job).
      Not any more; most if not all go to college grads; who needs the headache of hiring a lawyer when a BA will take tens of thousands less in salary and do the same work?

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    2. Its not the money. They are paranoid of us. They know we will find a way to sue them...or at least that is what they believe. They also think, "if she is a lawyer, why does she want this gig?" Weird. Everybody thinks we are LA LAW or Elisha or Matlock or think of the cash from Actos and Asbestos. Something is fishy here.....

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  14. http://abovethelaw.com/2011/08/villanova-might-need-a-kiss-from-mommy-since-the-aba-slapped-their-wrist-wreally-wreally-whard/

    Back on August 15, 2011, Elie Mystal ripped into the American Bar Association cockroaches, with an entry labeled “Villanova Might Need A Kiss From Mommy Since The ABA Slapped Their Wrists Wreally Wreally Whard.” He pulls no punches in this opening:

    "We shouldn’t be surprised that the American Bar Association barely cares about law schools misleading prospective law students when the organization doesn’t even really seem to mind when law school lie directly to the ABA itself. The Villanova Law LSAT scandal has been resolved, and boy are you going to be underwhelmed by the penalties associated with lying to the ABA for four years.

    For those who haven’t been following along, an investigation revealed that former Villanova administration officials misrepresented the median LSAT scores and GPAs of incoming Villanova students. The deceit took place for many years. Investigators later found that Villanova also falsely reported the number of admission offers extended to Villanova applicants.

    These are pretty serious findings against the school. You’d expect the punishment to be severe… unless you’ve actually been paying attention to how the ABA operates. If you are an ABA watcher, you know that this is an organization that thinks wrists are for slaps, not for cuffs.

    Either way, all will find it amusing to listen to Villanova Law Dean John Gotanda try to explain how the meaningless sanction was only achieved because Villanova took the matter so seriously….

    The penalty for Villanova’s actions are a public censure. For two years. Here’s how the ABA Journal explains it:

    In a letter (PDF) on Friday to the university’s president and the dean of the Villanova University School of Law, the section’s council says the law school’s intentional reporting of inaccurate information to the ABA would have justified putting the institution on probation or removing it from the list of ABA-approved law schools.

    However, because Villanova self-reported the problem to the ABA, corrected it “and separated from the law school all persons responsible for the misrepresentations and misleading conduct,” lesser sanctions were imposed, the letter says.

    They include a public censure that the law school must post online for the next two years.

    But do they have to post, say, accurate graduate employment statistics on their website for two years?"

    Mystal roasted the pigs for their deplorable conduct. Then again, the swine are busy rolling around in members’ dues and fees and could care less. In the final analysis, the ABA does not even give a damn about the “profession.” As long as they get their money, they don’t care that their reputation is lower than alligator piss.

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  15. Public Defender gigs are tough to get. Those aren't going to freshly minted lawyers. Those positions go to experienced solos and defense lawyers. I applied for a PD gig after law school 'cause I didn't know any better at the time, and it went to a criminal defense lawyer with 15 years of experience. They had hundreds of openings for 1 single PD attorney II opening. And it only paid $42K a year.

    There was a hot chick in the class before mine that got a PD gig, but she had strong recommendations from a criminal court judge. He even made several phone calls on her behalf. Frankly she probably blew him a few times to get that type of devotion from the judge (who btw was a crusty unlikable asshole). He even called the head of hiring committee and told him they'd be stupid not to hire her. Even one of the law profs at my shithole said PD gigs almost never go to new lawyers when he heard about it.

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    1. PD gigs are NOT going automatically to experienced solos. If they did, my two buddies and I would be PDs today. We have no work as solos. PD gigs were easy to obtain just a few years ago prior to 07. I always checked the County Job board downtown and a yellowed curled "openings" card remained on the jobs board for years and years. They always hired. All you had to do was talk to a supervisor and you were in. In 2003, Law Schools started to pump us out like Hyundai Excels and then the Recession hit. Today, I see highly trained polished kids from Tier 1 Schools at the PD's office. They don't want us cynical old guys and gals who know that jail is a good place for some of our clients. We know not to make waives or put up too much of a fight, less we blow that check every two weeks, health insurance because we are old and creaky and a PENSION. I would never risk a pension or a check for the sake of a mope who mugged someone for an I-Phone.

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    2. You are an ethical disaster.

      Please shred your license and take your pension.

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  16. Harry Scrotum, esq.October 18, 2015 at 2:52 PM

    Lemmings are fucking stupid. I just had a friend of mine ask me to meet with one of her clients. My friend's a masseuse. Her client is in her 30s and has a record. She's got some drug convictions. And this bitch wants to fucking go to law school. I told her to tell her client that it's not even an option for her. What's sad is that if she has halfway decent grades she could get into law school. Because the law schools don't give a fuck if these boys and girls can get licensed or not.

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    1. Are law licnese that fascist with Victorian 'moral turpitude?' I'm in health care. The supra-gov. boards make you divulge your life history, but it is usually to be used as evidence if there is a problem later.
      Teaching, though technically you would get a license, you would never get hired, the precious kids and all...

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  17. She WILL go to law school. Look at that POS Shon Hopwood, the Nebraska Armed Bank robber. For some reason, a lot of criminals are INSPRIRED to go to law school. A do gooder goo goo with influence takes pity on these bums and launces their careers into the Upper Middle Class. While us solos, with no sheets will continue to slog along with no work. I guess life isn't fair. Silly me.

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  18. http://lawschooltruthcenter.blogspot.com/2015/10/play-sad-violin-for-villanova-victim.html

    The Law School Truth Center featured a funny entry that was entitled "Play a Sad Violin for Villanova the Victim" - earlier today. Enjoy the following portion:

    "The winner for best, finely-tuned tone of any news article I've read in the last week is clearly this piece by Chris Mondics of Philly.com regarding the martyrdom of Villanova for the sin of telling the truth...

    Not only does the article orchestrate an entire string section's worth of sympathy for the defrauder, it manages to completely remove Villanova's post-2011 reality from the national law school marketplace, as well as claiming the prior fraudulently-earned gains are evidence of Villanova's post-hoc damage.

    Imagine a world where top students enroll in Villanova based on the school's sterling reputation and pay sticker, indeed! It would have happened, by gum, if only that sterling reputation hadn't been built in part on the dastardly fraud still damaging the school's prestigious reputation and costing it millions that it maybe never would have earned in the first place absent fraud. Surely, in absence of fraud, the school still would have ranked as highly - maybe even higher! - and attracted top-caliber students wanting to pay full sticker price. Reality is pretty fun when you can pick and choose what facts you want like it's a dreamland buffet.

    Villanova, in short, did everything right. Yet it continues to pay a steep price in terms of reputation damage, even as other colleges that engaged in deceptive practices, notably by providing misleading post-graduation employment statistics, have paid no price at all.

    While I wholly sympathize with victimized Villanova, Mondics loses me a bit here. Law schools nationwide have been paying a steep price for their collective honesty, while chronic liars like MBA programs, computer programming schools, and large for-profit corporations are now profiting by their dishonesty. There's plenty of violins, and all but the tip top law schools (where Villanova surely would be but-for fraud) deserve a somber, lonely song.

    Play a sad song for Villanova, but forget ye not the Cooleys and Saint Thomases and John Marshalls. Being a law school in 2015 is like listening to the sobbing hymns at the funeral of an upstanding twenty-eight-year-old father of six who died while saving every last invalid from a burning nursing home. So much good snuffed out, so much cosmic cruelty, so much sadness and uncertainty."

    Chris Mondics apparently believes that the supposed “suffering” of the law school pigs at Vanillanova trumps that of their hapless JDs. Yes, what a fearless journalist, right?!?! Somehow, this animatronic puppet failed to mention that these students and recent grads are strapped down with huge sums of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – for a dwindling chance to enter a GLUTTED “profession.”

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  19. I graduated in 2011 from a small cheap toilet with around 40k in law debt. I had around 35k of undergrad debt. Good job, right? HA!

    By the time I was even able to cough up enough money each month to pay my minimum, the debt ballooned to over 100k. I won't be able to pay it off without a family member croaking and leaving me an inheritance.

    No student wins this game unless they don't even play in the first place.

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  20. Remember kiddos-- this school has sports law, granted by a donation by jeff moorad. Who doent envision being the general counsel to the phillies or the eagles?

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  21. This is all bad news. The only silver lining is that the economy is booming and jobs for students at T1 and T2 school are more plentiful now than years ago it seems.

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