Monday, November 23, 2015

First Tier Fecal Matter: University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law

Tuition: Utah residents were hit with $24,918 in full-time tuition costs for the 2014-2015 school year. Out-of-state, full-time law students were slapped senseless with a tuition bill of $47,290 – for 2014-2015. First-year students also paid a $500 orientation fee. Yes, public schools are so affordable, right?!?! To put those charges into perspective, tuition at Yale Law School – for 2015-2016 – will reach $55,800. If you are not from Utah, why in the hell would you even consider attending such an expensive toilet?

Total Cost of Attendance: Since the state board of regents has not yet established the tuition rates, this is an estimate of 2015-2016 costs. However, you can see that the pigs plans to raise in-state tuition to $25,700 and out-of-state rates to $48,725. The dung heap lists other costs amounting to $20,262 for those living off campus. Books and supplies account for $4,250 and loan fees take up another $630, of this amount. With everything included, the swine list the total cost of attendance as $45,962 for Utah residents and $68,987 for out of state law students.

Remember, ABA-accredited diploma mills base living expenses off of the academic calendar. Since actual law students will require costs over the full year, and not nine months, we will prorate the following items: room and board, travel, and miscellaneous expenses. Doing so, we come up with the following, more accurate total COA – for 2015-2016: $51,089 for in-state law students and $74,117 for non-residents attending something called the S.J Quinney College of Law. Yes, what a bargain for students, huh?!?!

Ranking: Who wouldn’t want to pay such outlandish costs to attend such an elite academic program?!?! According to US “News” & World Report, the Univer$ity of Utah $.J. Quinney Commode of Law is co-rated as the 42nd greatest, most remarkable and amazing law school in the entire damn country! It only shares this distinct honor with three other diploma mills: Arizona, George Mason, and Washington and Lee.

Published Employment “Placement” Statistics: Let’s take a look at the public toilet’s NALP Class of 2014 Summary Report. Since the ABA cockroaches extended the reporting deadlines, these figures pertain to employment within 10 months of graduation. Apparently, there were 123 members of this cohort. Of that amount, 11 were unemployed as of March 15, 2015. That results in a “placement” rate of 91 percent. For $ome rea$on, the bitches and hags – on page two of this PDF – counted the idiot pursuing another degree full-time as “employed.”

Scroll down to the fourth page, to see the Size of Firm for these men and women. Only 49 members of this class – or 39.8% of the group – reported being employed in private law offices. Could you imagine – for one goddamn microsecond - if 39.8 percent of a medical school’s class landed jobs as actual doctors?!?! Those students and grads would raise hell.

Anyway, here is the breakdown for Quinney grads: 10 desperate-ass solo practitioners, 17 dolts working in firms of 1-10 lawyers, nine others employed in offices of 11-25 attorneys, five JDs in firms of 26-50 lawyers, two grads hired by an office with 51-100 attorneys, four in firms with 101-250 lawyers, and two damn graduates employed in offices with 251-500 attorneys. One wonders whether the cesspool counted the solos twice, since there is a category of 1-10 lawyers.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the S.J. Quinney Commode of Law Class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school - as $78,725. Hell, 94% of this school’s 2014 cohort took on such toxic debt. Keep in mind that this figure does not even include undergraduate debt – and it also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.

Seinfeld Would Be Proud: As a student at this excrement pile, you can join the following organizaTTTion:

Jackie Chiles Law Society

The Jackie Chiles Law Society is dedicated to the examination of how popular culture interacts with the law. The Society meets regularly to discuss how broadcast & print media and the internet affect the American legal system. Recent guest presenters include Patrick Markey, the film producer of A River Runs Through It and The Quick and the Dead, and Sam Lloyd, the actor who plays the attorney “Ted” on the television show Scrubs. The Society also maintains a collection of popular books and movies related to lawyers and the law in the SJQ law library for student use.” [Emphasis in original]

Nothing else quite says “prestige” the way this does, people.

Conclusion: Incurring an additional $85K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a tepid law degree, is not a wise investment. Most college grads have already accrued $25K+ for their BA or BS. Try landing a Biglaw job, with a JD from the University of Utah. By now, you are aware of the bimodal distribution of salaries in the U.S. lawyer field. If you are not, then you are too damn dumb to be a successful attorney. Simply put, if you are not earning $160K as a lawyer, then you are looking at earning $35K-$55K per year coming out of law school. Good luck securing a mythical legal position, with an annual salary of $75K in Utah or anywhere else. 

Notice that 10 desperate fools started their own law offices – as solo practitioners. The local job market for lawyers is GLUTTED. This is also true to a lesser extent for doctors and dentists as well. Mormons stress the importance of “higher education” – and attractive LDS women expect to marry a professional who makes good money and can financially support a home with several children. Trying to enter such a market – with no experience, capital, or actual skills – is the equivalent of a novice entering a chess tournament filled with grandmasters. The results will be ugly. At least, such a fool is only out his entry fee and some other incidentals.


  1. Today law school is a gamble. The only thing you can do is to minimize your risk. The best advice: attend top 10, or, offset tuition with scholarship money, or, attend a cheap tuition law school, - FAMU, Texas Southern, Southern etc.)... Student loan repayment can be brutal, and having Sally Mae as your pimp can be depressing. (IBR seems to ease the federal loans a little).

    But any way you decide, please be prepared to hustle. So many lawyers tip the scale of supply and demand, and your going to have to wear several hats in order to make it (sales, marketing, business owner), and really think outside the box.

    Just forget about the money and remember being a lawyer is a calling and to serve the under class. The rest will take care of itself.

    And when you graduate and need inspiration... think of Eugene Young from -- "The Practice". He's my hero and inspires me to get up everyday! As a lawyer you will be a minister of justice.

    And a low lsat is nothing to be ashamed about. It might mean you have to work twice as hard to pass the artificial barrier (bar), but they did away with the bar in one state already so not sure how relevant it really is......
    Yes, plenty of people pass the bar every year, but still do not have a clue how to practice.

    1. Or you could just save yourself the misery and not go to law school. It's really not worth it.

    2. If someone struggles on the LSAT and passing the bar, with all the resources available and with them being both rather easy and static "barriers", I fail to see how the same person can teach themselves how to practice law in a competitive, cut-throat environment with nowhere near the resources to learn how to practice, market and get paid.

      It's even hard for major companies with huge resources to break into mature markets on their own. A newbie, clueless law grad...those are some serious odds. You can do almost anything else and have a better chance at success.

    3. just for you 4:30 am

    4. I have an older acquaintance wanting to go to law school. Not sure what to tell him. He has a criminal record, is in his 40s, but...he has several law friends that say they will hire him once he gets out of his public law school.
      As I don't work in law, I didn't say anything.

    5. 4:30 is the same guy who posted the same idiotic tripe about law being a "calling" in past entries. That and kudos to 6:07 who pointed out that his entire post is the usual bunch of cliches.

      Look, hustle? Really? With crushing debt on your back and middling/poor credentials? The only successful solos today will be those backed by Daddy's money - family wealth.

      The deck is so stacked against non-elite, unconnected grads it's ridiculous.. I've been out +20 years, never broke into law btw, and followed a lot of people. Most, and I mean 95%, aren't making any money or any more money than they would had they gone a non-legal route. Many are out of law period.

      Dude, come on.. Law just plain doesn't work for non-elite, unconnected people anymore. Stop with the Horatio Alger crap please..

      The elite credentialed kids aren't even in the private sector. I found out where they go: They go into State gov't where they leech off the taxpayers as highly paid appointees in do-nothing jobs. And they all look out for each other in a big Magic Circle Jerk of connections.

      Even the right-credentialed people aren't out in the private sector because, like the law professors, they'd much rather 'slum it' and play House for 35 hours a week off the public teat.

      And here you are asking the lowest of the low on the totem pole grads to make themselves Superstars. You're nuts, dude.. Absolutely a freaking crackpot. I'm sorry, but the Fairy Tale you're pushing doesn't exist out there in the Real World in today's legal market. It's like telling every black kid he can play in the NBA or NFL *and* believing that shit 100%.

    6. Not all 9:45. A bunch are on Wall St. where they take corporate welfare from the government at even bigger clips.

      But otherwise yes, they love their high level overpaid do nothing government jobs. That's the place to be, but of course nobody else can get in.

      America is a third world country with delusions of being anything else. Eventually it will be impossible to run the tax sham, and then who knows what happens. Third world countries typically don't bother taxing everyone into poverty, because everyone is just in poverty already. America is pretty much almost there. In third world countries the elites are all in government, and the governments are completely corrupt.


    7. I've responded so many time to this idiot, but it doesn't seem to sink in. I'll try to get real simple for him, one month ago I was at a wedding and I met a NYC garbage man. The guy is 38 years old, has a conviction for a pretty serious crime, and a GED. He is on schedule to make 175000 this year. 85-150k is the norm after you put in seven years. He told me he will retire at around forty five and take his six figure pension and health insurance for life to a nice southern state where he will retire comfortably. When I told him about the troubles lawyers and other private sector employees are facing, he told me "I don't care if they or their's eat, they can starve. As long as me and mine are ok, I'm ok, and we will eat."

      My wife's brother just took the sanitation test and passed. The kid 1) has no military service, 2) a poor academic record, 3) around sixty college credits (around a C average), 4) he is not a minority, 5) he has spent the last seven years of his life after high school just chilling. Video games, partying, no job, nothing. His physical condition is so bad, that despite passing other civil servant tests, he failed physical. His family is slightly above middle class, and they have no connection to anybody in the city government. The kid studied for three months before the test and passed. The end. This kid will make more money than the vast majority of lawyers, most engineers, and many doctors. He will never be without work. He will have a real retirement. He has not student loans. His job will bever be outsourced or insourced. He will retire around fifty years old.

      I want the asshole telling lemmings to go to law school why it is worth going to college or law school when this is a realistic option for anyone that has the natural ability to graduate college and score a 150 on the LSAT. You can't look at how many people take the city tests because in many instances, due to public perception, people are taking it from the lowest elements of society (so if you just look at the numbers, it may seem daunting). If someone can graduate college and score a 150 on the LSAT, and is willing to put in the time, a job like this is a realistic option. I understand that some law schools have reduced standards so significantly that for some of the recent admits, passing a civil service test isn't possible. However, for the schools ranked between 15 and 100, I still wager most people can do it; and doing so will be much better than becoming a lawyer and serving the underclass.

      I know you won't respond. I know you'll keep saying stupid shit about hustle, but the truth is the truth: you are better off picking up garbage than doing this shit anymore.

    8. Dude, last paragraph. Dead-on.

      Rest, correct as well.

      Oh, you get pushed through the System alright. You work and work and work and hit the Real World after 1/3rd of your life is gone. 20's are gone or definitely approaching the Rear-View Mirror, etc.

      Then you find out that the connected with mediocre grades somehow got jobs in gov't. Somehow slummed 2 years at some unknown firm then got picked up - and *stayed* there - at Biglaw, etc.

      The elites don't want the private sector. No safety nets there and no ability to drink from the gov't well. Yup, they get hooked into gov't and stay there making easy cash for life.

      Wall Street, yup. Just another form of the No-Lose, gov't-backed scenario for these people.

      So 4:30, stop pushing the American Dream bs. The average unconnected schlub coming out of law school today has $200-300k of loans on their back and you want them to work as a Solo and you think this is somehow viable in America, the New Third World where there is no longer any upward social mobility - though They must continue to push the myth(s) otherwise people might wake up and stop buying into the System - and then they can't get paid and keep living well by scamming others?

      Sure dude.. Sure.

    9. Tell the guy in his forties to stay the hell away from law school. And tell him that you heard it from Old Guy.

  2. That's one grody toilet, man. Geez!

  3. Yes, we may be the face of the law...or a minister of justice as you put it. We bring the law to every corner of the US in all jurisdictions. There are just too many of us in a grossly over saturated market. Unfortunately, BP, Target, Costco, Walmart, Salle Mae, Edison Electric, Bank America, Ally do not except "justice, good will and the thanks of the court" as payment.

    Me: Mr Toyota dealer, I need a new car. I am tired or driving around in my 1996 Le Sabre as a lawyer because there are a billion lawyers out there. Would you accept that I serve "justice" as payment?

    Toyota Dealer: Absolutely Counsel. We appreciate all of the good works you perform on behalf of the community/ You are a minister of Justice. Here are the keys to you new Camry. Thank you.

  4. Kindly send one of those unemployed doctors my way. I'm dying here laughing at your "review" of this toilet.

  5. Nearly $50K/year cost of attendance for a Utah resident is ridiculous for a state school. And according to Nando's numbers, it looks like a graduate of this program has about a 1 in 10 chance of landing a gig capable of paying back over $100K in student loan debt.

    It's probably a good deal if one lands a full scholarship and lives with her or his parents while attending. But even then, there's no guarantee that being a lawyer in Utah is going to be a good career. The goal for anyone attending is to simply graduate with no debt. If law doesn't work out, then at least there's a chance to start over in another trade.

  6. There's so much wrong with 4:30's post...where do I start? Well, it's all there-the scholarship scam, the "cheap tuition" scam(at the esteemed Texas Southern OOS tuition is $23,400-and if you're OOS, the housing costs will add up-there's nothing "cheap" about it), the "hustle" scam, the law is a calling scam so don't sully it with employment statistics, the serve the underclass scam(guess what-the underclass doesn't want to pay you, either), the I use a fictional character for inspiration scam, the low LSAT is no problem scam, the bar is an artificial barrier scam(maybe that's right-so let's do away with medical licensing exams, too; after all, they're also "artificial barriers")
    Actually, it's a thing of beauty-4:30 hit every single specious argument in support of the scam-that's impressive!

  7. Going to law school is not a good idea for most people. It is okay for a select few who either have the contacts and connections necessary to get properly mentored, and/or are capable of hitting the top 10% of their class 1L. And, there are those who are natural businesspeople, true; but then those people would probably do even BETTER outside law with their natural talents.

    All others beware.

    Kids defaulting into law school for lack of knowing what to do with their useless Liberal Arts BA should think long and hard about whether they really want to be a lawyer, and what that entails. It is a long uphill climb and the money is probably better elsewhere for the vast majority of them.

  8. "[O]r, attend a cheap tuition law school, - FAMU, Texas Southern, Southern etc."

    What are you, some sort of HBCU shill selling the "all education is good, hopefully you can hustle hard enough to make it worth the life-crushing debt of the last 7 years of your life. You're a special snowflake--don't worry about those 33.6%, 29.3%, and 27.3% (respectively) LST scores"?

    Law isn't about serving the underclass until you can pay off your loans. Spoiler alert: It's not going to happen going to schools like that. Those are tainted credentials. If they had value, these examples would have better employment stats.

    4:30 gives terrible advice generally. Do NOT go to ANY TTTT under ANY condition. Even if free. If you can't do any better, the "profession" isn't for you. Don't do it -- the advice is for your own good.

    If you doubt me, go to and look this up yourself (especially the salary vs. debt data).

  9. The fact that law schools run and taught by people who have never really been lawyers is proof enough that the scam is on.

  10. Be a lawyer-it's a great life!

    1. You do get a lot of exercise chasing ambulances.

  11. Perhaps the pic at the top of the post is meant to honor the important Toilet-and-the-Law scholarship done at the University of Utah School of Law. Consider, for instance, the following work by U. of Utah lawprof (and ex-Dean of Academic Affairs) Terry Kogan, which I am sure is flush with insight:

    * Sex-Separation: The Cure-All for Victorian Social Anxiety, in Toilet: The Public Restroom and the Politics of Sharing, ed. Harvey Molotch and Laura Noren (NYU Press, 2010)

    * Sex-Separation in Public Restrooms: Law Architecture, and Gender, 14 Mich. J. Gender & L. 1 (2007).

    1. Unbelievable. Does Terry Kogan have no shame?

    2. Oh, Jesus, a new addition to the odious "law and" series: Law and Commodes.


    Let’s review the LSN profile on the Univer$ity of Utah $.J. Quinney Commode of Law. Plug your nose.

    “UU Law School Admissions

    UU Law School is considered a Competitive law school, which accepts only 36% of its applicants. Comparatively, Utah is Lower than the average cost for law school.

    Class of 2019

    Applications: 878
    Offers: 310 (35.31%)
    Matriculated: 97 (11.0%)
    25th percentile UGPA: 3.32
    Median UGPA: 3.61
    75th percentile UGPA: 3.80
    25th percentile LSAT: 156
    Median LSAT: 160
    75th percentile LSAT: 162

    Times have certainly changed at this toilet. In the past, if you didn’t have at least a 161 LSAT score, this score wouldn’t even look at you. If you had a 155 LSAT and applied to this diploma mill in 2008, that was the equivalent of a 5’9” skinny nerd, with bad acne, asking out the prom queen on a date. Now, the trash pit is admitting such applicants on a regular basis. Hell, that is akin to the most popular girl on campus not only going out with geek, but sleeping with him on the first date.


    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The University of Utah class of 2014 had an employment rate of 88% with 2% pursuing an additional degree.”

    Do you want to incur an additional $85K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a chance to enter a GLUTTED legal market?!?! Try and take your degree – from the 42nd “best” law school in the country – and scratch out a living in New York, Georgia, Massachusetts, Oregon, or Missouri. See how impressed those law firms are by your credential, Dumbass.

    I posted the following remark back in October 2010:

    “I recently received the new edition of the Yellow Pages, on my porch. Here is a breakdown of ads by industry:

    Attorneys - pp. 69-139 (plus full page ads on front and back cover)
    Auto dealers - pp. 147-153
    Auto repair – pp. 170-182
    Dentists – pp. 349-379
    Insurance – pp. 599-625
    Physicians – pp. 797-850
    Plumbing – pp. 863-900 (including 8 pages of coupons)
    Restaurants – pp. 946-974
    Veterinarians and hospitals – pp. 1167-1177

    Out of an entire 1235 page book, 71 pages are devoted to attorney ads. Keep in mind that these are the firms that can afford to run ads in the Yellow Pages.”

    1. Same thing in my small under 65K pop. community in the midwest. 30 pages of lawyers---most of the yellow pages and roughly 15 pages of all manner and form of automotive related from Auto Zone, to glass, repair, fuel, lube places, dealers, new and used, insurance. Everybody owns a car or two and spends thousands yearly. How many folks need a lawyer yearly? And year after year after year after year after year? Rarely

    2. My Will clients do 1 or 2 Wills during marriage and some do a 3rd after their spouse dies. They may buy and sell 2 houses during their life-but lawyers are involved in about 5% of all real estate transactions in my community, so that business is virtually gone. Some do a Will after a divorce-they should-but are usually tapped-out from the divorce to afford one. And, many clients end up helping aging parents sell their house, do Wills and Powers of Attorney. So, over 40 years a typical good client will hire me 3 to 6 times at an average of about $700. About $50 to $100 a year, on the average. That is why it is tough to make a living practicing law.

    3. I take offense that 5'9 is "nerd" height to you. I played high school football, had an awesome prom, and get plenty of prom queen tail in law school. Let's avoid generalizations brochacho.

    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

  13. Here's the scam in a nutshell.

    There's over 200 law schools in the US. The assholes have dumped out 40k grads every year for decades. In 30 years, you're looking at a little more than a million JDs. There's nowhere near that level of need for lawyers. The US saw a huge rise in statutory law in the 60s and 70s to deal with an expanding economy. That's not the case anymore. The assholes keep pumping out 40k grads every year. Even if they have to keep dropping admission standards to do it. (Did I mention the law schools are run by selfish fucking assholes?)

    The assholes charge $40k a year in tuition each year. Even the 4th tier shitholes. So there are 200 law schools. And only about 10 of 'em are ay fucking good. Those 10 schools might get you into the few biglaw jobs making a lot of money. The rest of the schools get you shitlaw. Maybe legal aid if you have the grades and give great head. Automation has done a fucking number on this profession. Oh and statutes and case law is available for free on this thing called the internets. Any asshole with a cell phone can view things that only lawyers could access 20 years ago.

    Someone mentioned the yellow ads for lawyers. You might (and I fucking stress might) need a lawyer once in your life. Twice if you're extremely unlucky or wealthy. You always need your car serviced. Or to eat. Or to get a checkup by your doctor. And the ads for lawyers still outnumber those other guys. What does that tell ya? It says you have a lot of scum chasing after a few clients. Yeah, fuck the legal profession. Do not fucking ever fucking go to law school.

  14. Agree with you except for one thing: Automation has not taken jobs. Folks, when they rarely need us, still talk in person to a lawyer. What has killed the neighborhood solo is the internet. We used to have "walk-ins" to our store front offices and be a "pillar" in the community. We were the neighborhood guy where kids could stop by for Halloween candy, sponsor little league. A small yellow pages ad in a local community phone book worked as well. Today, a small neighborhood guy is buried on the third or fourth page of a Search engine result and it seems like everybody has their guy now. Every family has a lawyer and everybody personally knows a lawyer. It is as simple as numbers. Illinois has 92,000 registered lawyers and is loosing 90,000 people a year to warmer climates. .

  15. What Nando's been warning of for years finally hits the mainstream media:


    Back on October 17, 2013, Tipping the Scales covered this dung pit in a Maya Itah review labeled “University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law.” How orginal, huh?! The content is apparently from students at this trash can. Here is her opening:

    “Academics & Programs: Students at the S. J. Quinney College of Law at the University of Utah are quite confident that they are receiving the “best law education available in the country for the price.” The “extremely approachable” and “very student-oriented” professors “make every effort to meet with students and make sure they understand the material.” “I went to an expensive liberal arts school for undergrad that advertised itself as offering available and motivated professors,” relates a 3L. “My undergrad experience pales in comparison to the individual attention and encouragement I have received at this state school.” “Professors here actually try to minimize stress rather than build it up,” agrees a 1L. The standard Socratic Method is not en vogue. Some students tell us that professors’ more easygoing approach allows “for a more comfortable environment in which to learn.” Other students say it’s “just too easy to doze off.” “I know this sounds crazy,” admits a 1L, “but I wish more of the professors would use the Socratic Method or, at least, engage the students in class more.”

    The administration at Utah “is always looking for new, creative ways to improve the school.” “The new dean has brought a new vision of Dream Big,” and administrators “demonstrate a great interest in not only hearing the students’ voices, but in improving student experience, academic quality, and transition to real-world practice.” “All the deans keep themselves highly available.” “Nobody’s got an attitude,” and “no one is too busy to answer a question.”

    Students here are “right in the middle of Salt Lake City, surrounded by large and prestigious law firms.” The College of Law has “a great relationship with practitioners and judges in the community” and “There are plenty of opportunities to gain practical experience.” “It is fairly easy to do judicial clinics and other legal internships.” “Terrific outreach programs afford students opportunities to work pro bono with public interest organizations.” The “excellent first-year legal writing program” is “rigorous and well thought out.” “You’ll walk out of here writing better than most lawyers who have been practicing for years,” claims a 2L. If you want to specialize, “There are plenty of courses, especially in natural resources law.” The Professional Development Office is “friendly and helpful,” but “A lot of students get jobs from other sources.”

    It’s funny how law students at schools that are ranked anywhere from 20-100 ALWAYS tell outsiders that they feel they are receiving the best “education” available, and that it is at an amazing price. Keep telling yourself that, morons. While only those suffering from a severe mental illness, including the “professors,” like the $ocraTTTic meTTThod, the faculty at Quinney is not helping students who will become lawyers. Do these idiots believe that depositions, contested hearings, and the general practice of law is going to be stress-free?!?! Yes, that MUST be why attorneys are never depressed, angry, horribly out of shape, or delve into drug use or alcohol abuse!

  17. No one gives a damn about your internship “experience.” Legal employers see you as a chump, if you list your UNPAID LEGAL POSITIONS on your resume. This tells hiring managers that you were not smart – or connected – enough to find a paid legal gig while you were enrolled in law school. Good luck landing a real attorney job at a decent firm, with that type of background. Since lawyers do not learn real, practical skills, employers go by the supposed pedigree/name brand of the school. In the final analysis, it does not matter if you attended the 32nd “best” law school in the country, the 49th greatest, or one that was ranked at number 71 or 83. Law firms lump you all into one category: not good enough.

    The article then continues with more comical info:

    “Campus Life/Facilities: “A new [law school] building is in the works,” but in the meantime, the current “aging” and “undersized” building is “from the late 60s and reflects that boring architecture.” “Our building sucks, in a word,” laments a 2L. “The campus seems designed to drive students off campus as soon as classes are over.” The computer network is “spotty in some places,” and the library gets average reviews.

    “People at this school actually seem happy,” and “There is a sense of community and connectedness” on campus. “We’re small,” explains one student. “You’ll know most of the school and faculty by the time you’re a 2L.” “The U fosters a great environment, where everyone helps everyone else.” “Individual personalities flourish and the interaction of personalities is like that among family members who have known each other their entire lives.” “People here see the whole person. It’s a very collaborative environment.”

    Students report that their peers are “equal parts brilliant, collegial, encouraging, competitive, and just flat-out a joy.” It’s “probably an older and more mature crowd than at the average law school.” Many students “are married with children.” “I don’t regret for a moment choosing to come here as a thirty-something, second-career mom,” says a 2L. “I fit in.” “The nontraditional demographic allows for an interesting mix and a few extra designated drivers.” The Church of Latter-day Saints is, of course, prevalent everywhere in Utah. “Don’t think that because this isn’t BYU there won’t be plenty of Mormons.” Politically, “The school is fairly evenly split between liberals and conservatives.” “The divide can be fierce at times,” but “Overall there is great acceptance of different viewpoints and lifestyles.”

    The old buidling was a turd, but the cockroaches sank a fortune into the new monolith. Regarding how your fellow law students feel, that can simply be the fact that many victims project a false outlook. Check back later, when they are stressing over bar exam results – and they cannot find a job, even though they graduated from the 42nd “best” law school in the entire nation. Throw in large sums of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, into the equation.

    The second year idiot who is in her 30s and a mother is a dolt. Large law firms don’t want to hire an older student. Plus, that idiot mentions she already had a prior career. That is another strike against her ass. After all, law offices want a young person they can mold into their image. For $ome rea$on, the law school pigs fail to mention this fact when they are recruiting lemmings.

    1. Despicable.

      How many times in my life do I have to be subjected to hearing the word "prestigious" used in combination with law?

      Once and for all, law isn't prestigious today. It hasn't been for some time, decades in fact. I think most everyone in the general public knows that law is now a gutter profession. Beyond this, law was always a tool and playground of the rich and elite.

      So, I neither can stand the phrase "noble profession" used in combination with law. It's obvious today that from the Supreme Court down, decisions are based on political expediency and nothing more. Once again, law hasn't been a "noble profession" in decades, if ever.

      Lastly, why do law schools continue to try and trumpet meaningless things associated with "The Law School Experience" - co-students, location, the quality of firms which coincidentally happen to be located around the school or the connectedness to things like gov't - which are completely irrelevant as is The Law School Experience itself?

      As with college, they seem to want to create an extension of the Warm and Fuzzies and the illusion of a nurturing, caring, warm environment to sell the school to prospective suckers (Lemings). Unfortunately, NONE of this matters in the Real World which is a very cutthroat, harsh, individual "all for me, screw everyone else." type of place.

      The "Jobs Experience" matters. The Law School Experience does not..

      And Nando is dead-on. What I found out was that employers not only care about pedigree, they also know, full-well, which internships matter and which do not. As with everything else in law, and I mean EVERYTHING ELSE, the Fed. Court Summer Judge internship seems to, for some reason, trump the sclubby unpaid Feel-Good summer internship at GreenPeace...

      As someone who was a former member of TLDS, I can state that the Mormons, like the majority of the organized religious establishment, are perfectly happy raking in the cash while their debt-strapped charges enter the harsh Real World with much less than the slingshot, in terms of credentials, that David had when he slew Goliath.

      Nando has roasted many Jesuit and Catholic institutions and, I assure you, this school reps the identical Mormon philosophy quite well: That is, As long as the Church has the money, all is well. The fact that we impoverished our flock to do it? That doesn't really matter all that much..

  18. All of my under employed and unemployed law buddies, all out 25 years or better, have a pact: If one of us gets a gig where we have to hire somebody, it will be one of us. You get hired because you are their buddy. I know my buddy will give me work even if I know nothing in that area. He would rather work with a friend who has his back. There is not enough work for everybody with a law degree who wants to practice.

  19. Don't sweat it. If they can't find new law graduates in a few years to drive down the hourly rates like they've been planning for a long time, they'll implement their new "Access to Justice" programs where you get to have legal advice without a lawyer, and get easy fill in the blank online forms so you don't have to use lawyers anymore. Wonderful! Never seen a profession fail to protect its own as much as a lawyers. Pretty soon you will be able to get a LLLT (limited license legal technician) like they have in Washington for $200 flat fee to get hours of top notch legal representation, as the flood the market with new competition in all kinds of creative and nasty ways to destroy America.


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