Tuesday, January 5, 2016

Touro College Jacob B. Fuchsberg Law Center is So Easy to Get Into, the Pigs Sent Acceptance Letters to Those Who Never Even Applied


The NoTTTTice: On January 4, 2016, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry that was entitled “Law School Sends Acceptance Letters To People Who Never Even Applied.” Take a look at this comical opening:

“It’s January, and you know what that means: it’s law school acceptance season. Each year at around this time, prospective law students anxiously wait to receive the important news on what their futures may hold. One law school, however, decided to speed up the painstaking process and give would-be law students even more reason to celebrate on December 31, because these lucky pre-law students were being given a chance to ring in the new year with a law school acceptance in hand. 

There was just one problem — one huge problem. 

Many who received acceptance letters on New Year’s Eve hadn’t even applied to the school. Oopsie! Can you guess which law school committed this embarrassing mistake? 

The law school in question is none other than the Touro College Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center, a school that was once selected by the Above the Law readership as the runaway winner of the dubious accolade of “Worst Law School in New York.” Here’s the congratulatory email that prospective law students received from Touro Law on New Year’s Eve at 6:36 p.m., entitled, “Message from Dean Salkin – Touro Law”: 

“A Message from Dean Patricia Salkin 


Congratulations on your acceptance and welcome to the profession. Touro Law is an exciting and welcoming place to study law with an active, vibrant community of passionate students and faculty working and learning on our unique “court house campus.” I hope you will take the time to learn about many of our cutting edge new projects and programs such as our nationally recognized disaster law clinic, our new clinics in criminal law and in immigration law, and our new institutes in aging and longevity law and land use and sustainable development law. In the last six months we have added almost 20 new endowed student scholarships as a demonstration of our continued commitment to providing an affordable and accessible quality legal education. I encourage you to experience our warm sense of community by visiting our state-of-the-art facility and by speaking with faculty, students and alumni. Please follow me on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn to stay connected and to learn more about Touro Law in the coming weeks and months. I look forward to greeting you in August.” [Emphasis mine]

You KNOW that you are attending a certified trash pit, when your school is sending out acceptance letters and emails to those who did not even bother to apply! I understand that the initial message was sent out in error. However, TTTTouro Law CenTTTTer’s reputation is so low that it does not really surprise anyone with knowledge of the law school scam that it occurred at that pile of moist feces. In addition, legal employers do not give one damn if your students are "passionate" - nor do they care about "cutting edge" clinics.


Tuition: As you can see, full-time tuition for economic rape victims at TTTTouro College Jacob B. Fuch$berg Law Cesspool amounts to $45,630 – for the 2015-2016 academic year. For $ome rea$on, the pigs felt that listing this massive cost on a per semester basis would make the figure seem less daunting. Then again, this toilet relies on morons for its enrollment. 


Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” &World Report lists the average law student indebtedness - for those unfortunate souls who comprise the TTTTouro Law Class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school - as $154,855. Fully 85% of this school’s 2014 cohort took on such excrementitious debt. 

By the way, that total represents the 7th largest indebtedness sum from all individual schools that furnished this data to the dead magazine. That is extremely impressive, huh?!?! To be fair, roughly one dozen ABA-accredited diploma mills did not bother to supply this info to Bob Morse. Remember that this figure does not even include undergraduate debt – and it also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled. 


Ranking: Based on the sickening cost of admission to this pristine “institution of higher learning,” it must have an incredible reputation in the legal and academic community. Not so fast, Lemming. You see, USN&WR doesn’t only list schools by debt totals. It also rates them by their overall, supposed strength. According to that source, TTTTouro College Jacob B. Fuch$berg Law Cesspool is ranked as a FOURTH TIER TRASH CAN! In sum, this commode is the Cleveland Browns of U.S. “legal education.”

Conclusion: Yes, Cockroach Patricia Salkin was correct in her $elf-$erving assessment of the toilet as “providing an affordable and accessible quality legal education,” right?!?! Looking at the facts above, terms such as expensive, prohibitive, and garbage do not come to mind – perhaps for those with an IQ in the 70-80 range. Who the hell wouldn’t want to incur OUTRAGEOUS SUMS OF NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a TTTT law degree. In fact, this is the only current fourth tier dung heap located in the state of New York! Now, that’s how you spell pre$TTTTige. Good luck getting interviews at decent law firms, with a diploma from this cesspit. When you send in your pathetic resume and cover letter, you will make the hiring partners and their secretaries laugh until wet themselves.


  1. Their desperate to stay in business! Think about the cushy, heady environment they work in. They don't have to hustle and schlepp for clients who squeal when you don't "get them off" for two bills. We all know why they keep going.... Circuit City and Borders would still be in bidness if the gub'mint gave out cash. The law schools, like Sears is still in business because of accounting tricks, gub'mint tax write offs and financial manipulations by their CEO.

    1. It's like VW. "You vill reduce ze emissions immediately, or you vill be fired!" Given that choice, people lied.

      Same thing here. "Increase admissions, or you will be fired!" So they recruit people who never applied.

    2. The law schools stay in business by looting the US Treasury through the Grad Plus loan program. That's real money, not just an accounting trick.

    3. I am a Touro law grad, and while I was there, the institution was anything but transparent. I have many issues with that institution and the manner in which it was run, though I have been able to do okay (certainly better than I had anticipated doing given the apocalyptic job market and my school's very mediocre/poor public standing) several years after graduation. The pervasive doom and gloom that I had read about prior to and during my time in law school (yes, I was very embarrassed to admit where I was going to law school at the time) turned out to be less true than I had expected. No, I am certainly not at a large white shoe firm in Manhattan, but I work at a firm in the neighboring 'burbs that focuses in an area of practice that I care about. The people I work with are very nice, the hours are reasonable, and the pay isn't bad. Many of my peers that I have kept in touch with from Touro can say the same. There are opportunities out there, particularly in the New York metro area, even for those in the middle and lower tiers. That being said, I hated the institution, its general lack of transparency and honesty, and the way it treated its students, and very much wish I had gone elsewhere for law school, no question. There is hope, though.

  2. This is genuine leadership in the law schools' race to the bottom. Not even Cooley has basically opened their admissions to people who haven't even applied. And thanks to absolutely no student lending standards whatsoever, everyon truly has access to a $150K legal education.

    What could possibly go wrong here?

    1. They are still not being sufficiently open-minded! Forget people who merely haven't applied. What about Non-Living Americans?!? These people comprise the bulk of the American population! Just think of it. The total population of graveyards and mantlepieces outnumbers the population of Life-Privileged Americans, yet the former have no readily available legal services!!! They are UNDERSERVED!

  3. WARNING WARNING DANGER DANGER: The learned professors and deans on the Faculty Lounge Blog noted in their recent post that newly minted graduates should be able to readily obtain law jobs paying 50K plus health care! We all know that's complete hog wash. Being out 25 years, I can't do that and have not for several years. I go from gig to gig and one $200 court appearance to another. My buddy out 30 years from a Tier 1 school and recently UNEMPLOYED is praying for 65K as an opener...These professors don't understand the desperation. Everybody, POST to the FACULTY LOUNGE BLOG. I can't be the only one posting.

    1. They don't understand, nor should they, I suppose. The professoriate come from the gilded class - they have no idea what it is actually like outside of their gated communities and ivory towers.

      "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? Graduates should be able to make $50k with benefits if they actually applied themselves...!!!"

  4. These people have no sense of common decency whatsoever, and shamelessly blemish the academic landscape.

  5. I'm waiting for the infomercials.

    I think at some point they'll start packaging the JD with other useless degrees, and using other sales tactics.

    "How much would a degree cost for such a prestigious profession? Would you expect to pay $1M? No! We go lower! $750k? No! For a degree that gives you a million dollar premium, not $500k, not $250k, but $200k!"

    "But that's not all! Sign your debt bondage papers now and we'll even throw in a free LLM! And a coffee mug!"

    "Disclaimer: law school is not a guarantee of employment. Most likely you will never be employed in the legal field and will have a lifetime of underemployment and poverty. Taxes, origination charges and interest fees apply, adding at least $50k to the advertised amount and likely much more. Scam Law School inc. will not be held liable for any of the assertions made in terms of employment or salary, as these are advertisements, puffery, or pure fantasy. Additionally we are also above the law and so therefore you will never have legal recourse against us, as our sister scammers the courts will throw your case out while singing platitudes of your new law degree."

    "ORDER NOW!!!"

    1. That involves too much thought. I'd say something like the JD Wentworth 877 Cash Now commercials.

      "I'm a special snowflake and I need a law degree. Call JD Fucksberg 877-SCAM ME!!!"

    2. My school actually did provide every member of the graduating class with a "free" alumni coffee mug.

    3. Just the thing to use for cleaning the toilet.

  6. These law professors and deans are oblivious at best and uncaring at worst about the plight of the over saturated legal profession. On the Faculty Lounge
    Blog, the are discussing cocktails at a lounge over at the AALS meeting and celebrating!!! While thousands of us veteran attorneys and newbies struggle along with massive student loan and Obama Care payments. I am being chocked. Its like the auto industry in '08-'09. Capacity needs to be cut back dramatically. Instead, these professors are having a drink on us!!! Go to the Faculty Lounge Blog and start posting!!!!

  7. Just Google Touro and Washington DC murder trial.....

    1. I read about that case and didn't realize that he was from Touro. I wonder what happened to him, after the case and his lawsuit against the Internet effectively ended his career.

    2. I know very few attorneys who will try a murder alone, and that includes prosecutors! I also take a co-counsel with me because of the potential consequences. I always take a "law guy." I am a good communicator and present well to judges and juries. My buddy is to nervous to speak, but damn, does he know the cases and statutes. We're a team. No your limitations because you have a CLIENT to worry about, not your vanity.

  8. I visited Touro back in the year 2000.

    Students were openly talking (not whispering) to each other during class, and I even saw something get thrown in the back of the lecture hall. The whole environment was quite juvenile.

    Ironically, back then, Touro was housed in a building that was once a former elementary school. How appropriate.

    1. Formerly an elementary school, now a septic tank.

  9. The game has changed and everyone must adapt.

    Minimize your risk by attending the low cost law schools - FAMU, Southern, Texas Southern.

    If your going to attend tier 4 schools, A law degree is a product, why pay north of $40k a year for something you can get for about $14.5 k a year.

    After you enroll on day one of classes your school will hold a swearing in ceremony lead by a judge and the dean for the new students. Don't be blinded by this. After they are done they will give
    you the break down of tuition and living cost for the next three years (do the math).

    Make sure to make friends with as many 3L's as you can on campus. Then casually ask them their job prospects. Once you see the desperation you will relies something isn't right.

    If your school happens to be a "public interest" school then do the math. This means that a majority of your peers will be prosecutors, or PD's which average $37k a year.

    So you will go north of $120k to make only $40k a year... Like the dean said in the swearing in ceremony, live like a lawyer while attending law school you will live like a student afterwards.

    Go the low cost tuition route and you might have a shot going the solo Try criminal law). You must hustle hard, network.

    Always remember due to human behavior someone will always be arrested and need a lawyer. You just have to find them.

    The largest reason the legal field became glutted was that back in the day law school was off limits to a certain class / type of people.

    Now the playing field has been leveled and access has been extended to everyone to have a fair shot at being a lawyer people are complaining.

    Let the haters hate and don't forget there is enough money left in the legal game for everyone to eat. But now you must eat what you catch.....

    1. The problem is so many end up hating law practice once they give it a whirl, and by then, it's too late. They've committed. Non-law employers now don't want them, as they are stained with the scarlet JD.

      While it may well be true they've levelled the playing field in a sense, they have simultaneously lowered the bar! The smart kids got the memo a few years back to go into other fields, hence the falling LSAT's we're seeing.

      INSTEAD (as a recovering sh!tlaw solo myself) I would advise the kids to try at all costs TO WORK IN A LAW FIRM, A REAL SH!TLAW SHOP, before even attempting law school. Sure, there's plenty of people who need a lawyer--they just can't pay for one.

      Then, and only then, do you know what you're getting into!

    2. Let the haters hate and don't forget there is enough money left in the legal game for everyone to eat.

      You provide absolutely no proof of this. Considering that there are roughly twice as many graduates as there are jobs, this seems unlikely. Are existing firms simply poo-pooing potential paying work? Is there really room in the legal market for new practitioners? Saying that there's "unmet demand" or "Sufficient demand" is absurd if the "demand" that you're discussing is purely latent (i.e., it's "demand" for which the demanders do not have any money). Sure, if you can figure out how to run a business providing services to non-paying customers, go for it! In the absence of subsidies, that's the business equivalent of a perpetual motion machine, but if you absolutely feel some bizarre need to be a lawyer such that you don't mind working for free, go for it.

    3. Even when I thought Mr AAMPLE couldn't get any more inane, he posts at 2:43. Lemmings: every word he writes in nonsense, including the and a. "You must hustle hard, network." "Try criminal law." What nonsense-and clearly from a person who has never practiced criminal law, which is most likely the most glutted field of all, where a DUI 15 years ago brought in $2500, you're lucky to get $500 with the other thousands of desperate solos undercutting you ruthlessly.
      Tell me 2:43, do you get some sense of perverse pleasure in hoping that people ruin their lives by following your terrible advice? What you're doing is wrong-stop now.

    4. That's way too much a year. I'd say law school at most is worth $3-4k a year out of pocket. And even then you blew 3 years.

      If your goal is to make $40k a year it makes no sense to blow 3 years of not making that money and closing doors for yourself.

    5. What you say has a measure of truth in terms of outcome, but why would someone want to spend close to a decade in school to make 37k and have to struggle for life?

      In big cities, if garbagemen made double that, we would have a city wide strike. I know so many people that didn't finish high school who are making six figures in municipal government protected jobs, and you are sitting here telling kids to go to law school to make 37k and start a law practice? What the hell is wrong with you? My old firm is hiring guys with 20 plus years experience for 60 grand, and I know someone who is a convicted felon making over 150k working for the department of sanitation. How does that make sense? How does what you advise make sense?

      And for those who loathe unprestigious work, no matter how lucarative, there are tons of people with white collar options that have fucked themselves by entering this ultra glutted profession. I'm a decade out and I'm barely making what I made before law school.

      The person below was making more than double his post law school salary (and based on the comments), more than triple. Even if his debt load is 60k, he still fucked himself, it's just not permanently life ruining.

    6. Been there, done that. My buddies and I all out over 20 years HUSTLE for criminal clients. First, most will have a Public Defender. 2. Most are poor. 3. Whatever work there is you will be competing with thousands and thousands of lawyers all thinking like you or us. It there is enough money in the legal game, why are so many current attorneys struggling and how do you account for the Paul Campos data (IRS) of solos earning around 40K?

    7. Or you could enter a field that isn't extraordinarily glutted and actually have a shot at a real career. Unless you're independently wealthy, law is a sucker's bet.

    8. Mr. Aample is a lying / delusional clown. This guy - like SOOOO many others, btw - cut his salary more than in half by choosing to play the dangerous, life-destroying game of going to law school:


      5:14 pm is entirely correct. You think you can make it on crim, wrong. That's dead now because of what? What else.. a flood of new graduates saturating the market year after class year, every year. 20 years ago, you could make a killing doing BK. Now, you can, maybe, get $500. Used to be $1500-$2000. Problem is, loans today ARE 3x what they were 20 years ago while prices are 3x less.. That's a recipe for financial disaster and life-long non-dischargeable student loan debt because there is no way to pay down the principle with current wages in law.

      Re: Cheap schools. NONE exist, idiot.. The least you might get out for today is $50 grand if you attend No-Name LS of Appalachia in the outback mid-west or some such.. That $50 grand in debt, however, will grow to 6 figures quickly and you'll still be fucked..

      Mr. Aample rambles on about college. Same bullshit.. Used to be cheap. Now SUNY is 22 grand a year. That's cheap??

      Higher Education today is designed for one thing: Keep the academics living well (see posts here re: Faculty Lounge) and let the Peasants Eat Cake.

      A few, a very few, get lucky and half of those or 75% are connected so they don't count really.

      The most important thing a young person today can do is keep any and all educational debt off their back. If that means foregoing higher education, than that's what they need to do. They were never picked to win anyway so all they're doing is cheating a rigged system out of another Losing Customer. Those posts at the Faculty Lounge are appalling but they showcase the real attitudes of those in Higher Education. Do you really want to destroy your financial future so these scumbags can live well today? Doesn't make much sense to me..

    9. [quote] and I know someone who is a convicted felon making over 150k working for the department of sanitation. [/quote]

      Funny, I represented a guy who worked for the Sanitation Department. He and his wife lived in a squalid, broken down, one room trailer that barely had enough room for the two of them. I don't think in most cases these guys are making six figures or anywhere close.

      But that bets the point. What kind of life is being a "sanitation engineer" for anybody with an IQ above 100?

    10. I know a guy who owned a small, self-started septic pumping and installation company. He lives in a nice restored home on lots of land and fixes sports cars as a hobby.

      What kind of life is being a "sanitation engineer" for anybody with an IQ above 100?

      What kind of life is it working as a McDonald's manager with 250K of loans hanging over your head? Until we have a society where preening about your intelligence translates into actually getting a job, wasting money on getting overeducated for getting nonexistent jobs is just stupid.

    11. @1:17,

      Really? You represented someone from one of the big cities who worked for the department of sanitation, and they lived in a trailer? Please tell me what city that is so I can copy and paste the civil list therefrom calling out your terrible lies.

      Now to your real point: "But that's [besides] the point l. What kind of life is being a 'sanitation engineer" for anybody with an IQ above 100?"

      The answer is a pretty fucking good life. Is it as good as being an associate at Cravath, GC of a fortune five hundred, etc? Probably not. For those people who don't have rich parents and who aren't going to the tippy top schools, does it best most other things, including 99 percent of law school outcomes, including owning a solo shop doing shitlaw? You bet your ass it does.

      Ill take guaranteed six figures, political protection, retirement at 45, and all the rest of it before I take the fucking snake oil you are selling.

    12. There are MENSA members in trucking, sanitation, as janitors and bouncers. IQ has almost nothing to do with outcomes, and even less to do with life satisfaction.

      I actually do have a high IQ, went to gifted schools and the like. Nobody over the age of 14 cares, especially if they have a decent IQ, because they know how worthless it is.

      Most high IQ people hate being at work, and only work as little as possible to make enough money to live. They spend the rest of their time pursuing hobbies or educational endeavors, and by that I mean not going to school but studying various subjects for fun.

      I'm no genius, just well above average, but even I study various subjects and work on projects that I find far more fulfilling than any paid work as an employee I've ever done in my life.

      Not that any of this matters, Mr. AAMPLE is a law school shill BSing any way he can.

    13. 250K? 250K of debt is if you go to a school like Vandy or Duke, and that is sans scholarship, living expenses included if I am not mistaken. Only the most cretinous of fools would think of going to an overpriced, lowly ranked private school, with no full scholarship, no business connections whatsoever, etc. Even today's gargantuan batch of "brilliant prospective lawyers" isn't stupid enough to sink itself into 250K of debt for the most part; I'm sure there is some "genius" Cooley alum that might have racked up a figure in debt close to that, and he is currently paying off his student loans working two jobs as a BK manager in the morning, and a crackdealer on the nightshift. I hope your ex-convict friend has fun making six figures as a poooer scooper.I mean "sewer physicist".

    14. @9:07,

      Yeah, 250k is stupid, but so is 100k, so is 50k, and so is even 25k. It's just a question of degree of damage. This is a glutted and over saturated profession. Will very few people succeed? Sure. There are probably millionaire janitors that own cleaning companies, but it's a very, very, very small portion of the janitorial population. Similarly, there are going to be some lawyers who make it, but most won't. Moreover, you don't spend 7 years in school to become self employed and have no job security. You spend 7 years in school to have a very high chance of stability in your life. If you happen to have the skills, luck, and capital to make a small business work, such as a solo shop, then that's gravy, but you don't need to spend 7 years in school for that. If you like long odds with big success, you can go join an mlm scheme, where if you make it to the top of the pyramid, the money and leisure are epic. And there are tons of other business options that don't require close to a decade of education, if you have the win it all or bust mentality.

      As for my sanitation friend, he is fine. He's going to retire within five years, move to the South, and live like a king on his six figure pension. He was laughing at the plights of the over educated idiots that he knows.

    15. It doesn't take an astrophysicist to figure out that there are far more lawyers pulling down millions than plumbers or sanitation engineers making it past the 6 figure mark. Joe Jamail ring a bell? I'd rather be a GI doc or urologist...it stinks slightly less, is guaranteed to pay a six figure salary, low unemployment, and far more respect.

    16. ..As if you could. You obviously didn't have the science background - or the intelligence. Your posts get more nonsensical with each one you write.

      Here we go with the "respect" (same as "prestige") bullshit. And that's all it is: bullshit.

      Bill collectors, investment managers, and banks don't care about "respect", for example, when buying a home. Just money. That's the bottom-line.

      And, btw, Mr. Aample there are far more lawyers who are worth less than zero because of student loans they can never be rid of compared to plumbers or garbage men.

      And yes, you too can be "respected" working as Night Manager at McDonald's - if you can even land that job - with $250-$300k in non-dischargeable student loans hanging over your head for life.

      And lastly, you can also live in a mobile home like this mythical dude Mr. Aample is making up as a broke JD except unlike him you can have $250-$300k loans hanging over your head. Yes Kids! You can Fail Greater! You just don't realize it yet.. Go to law school. You will then, I assure you, if you are so foolish as to make that fatal mistake.

    17. There are far more pro athletes, singers, actors and models making millions than there are lawyers.

      Might as well skip school entirely and just become an actor.

      Leonardio diCaprio ring a bell?

      Damn your post was stupid. People waste time getting an education to increase the floor of earnings, not the mythical ceiling that a couple of people in a profession get.

      The head of the Sanitation Department in a major city or the federal level is probably doing pretty fucking well for himself too btw.

  10. This just in! I've also been "accepted" at San Quetin, and I've committed no crime, and indeed, haven't even been arrested!


  11. Which is a bigger piece of fucking dogshit, Touro or actual dogshit?

    1. If a wild dog living near the abandoned Chernobyl nuclear facility took a radio-active shit in the woods, I would have to say that Touro would still be a bigger piece of radio-active dogshit than the actual radio-active shit taken by the Chernobyl dog.

    2. You can actually grow crops or grass with shit. And it doesn't cost you anything.


      Shit is free. A law degree from Touro will put you in the hole about $200K. I ask you, Which is worse?

  12. this is the same Touro institution that accepts students from yeshivas without high school transcripts into their college.

  13. Good ol' Touro. The law school scam wouldn't be the same without you.

  14. For you gentiles who are not a member of my tribe of chosen, a Yeshiva is a school. It could be any old thing that qualifies as a school. Any Rabbi or putz could open up a Yeshiva without accreditation or formal teacher training. Heck, I can open up a Yeshiva truck driving school. It is the equivalent of being an Ordained Minister....there are many many bible schools and storefront religious that will give a PHd in Ministry Studies. Same deal.

  15. This stuff is almost impossible to parody- "Nationally recognized disaster law clinic"-what, they brag about this? Does it investigate what a disaster Tuoro is? "New institutes in aging and longevity law"-yes, there are tens of thousands of jobs in this area just waiting to be filled.
    What a terrible, terrible joke on anyone clueless enought to attend this school.

    1. Touro's disaster law clinic is a self-study program, obviously.

  16. Congratulations! You've won the Nigerian lottery!

    Provide us your bank account information and release forms to claim your prize!

  17. Last year Indiana Tech raffled off a "scholarship" to the general public. It might well have gone to someone who did not want to attend law school, or who would not have qualified even by Indiana Tech's bottom-of-the-toilet standards.

    Today I got a call from one of those annoying machines: "Congratulations! You have been selected as the winner of ..." Soon enough the message will say "Congratulations! You have just been admitted to Touro. Press 1 to register. Press 2 to apply for an on-line LLM in dolphin aerospace law. Press 3 to transfer to Cooley."

  18. Lots of Good information in your post, I favorited your blog post so I can visit again in the future, Thanks.
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    1. Do not attend this dishonorable law school, Kabir! You will find many scams like this in New York.

  19. @2:43pm

    The largest reason the legal field became glutted was that back in the day law school was off limits to a certain class / type of people.

    Now the playing field has been leveled and access has been extended to everyone to have a fair shot at being a lawyer people are complaining.


    You are correct. California even let an illegal immigrant attend law school, graduate, take the bar and pass, then swear in as a practicing lawyer.

    I am all for minorities getting a fair shot at being a lawyer, but where do we draw the line. (It's getting crowded out here in the legal field and thus new lawyers are willing to work for less, which under cuts the old timers).

    Supply and demand. Sheesh

    1. Diversity in the legal profession is a good thing. I practice in a jurisdiction that see attorneys and judges of all stripes in court houses. It does a disservice to "discrete and insular minorities" to have no jobs or opportunities because of the over glutted market.

    2. I observed a law dean encourage a young lady to attend his law school. She was husband hunting. He told her that there are many cute eligible men attending law school. She complained that she had a 2.5 GPA from DeVry or some other retarded school. He told her that she could have a very lucrative legal career and that he would walk her application in the door. Just like no doc mortgages, there are no standards.

    3. Funny that you should mention that. The only "school" that sent a representative to my high school was DeVry. Obviously I did not count Leiter, Leong, and McElroy among my classmates.

    4. "Just like no doc mortgages, there are no standards."

      did someone mention Steve Eisman yet? he's an ethnic jew who campaigned against jewish traditions, bet against the subprime mortgage industry, sits on the board of Footsteps, and bet against for profit schools.


  20. Insult to Injury is getting your money taken by a man named Fucks Berg. Lets just affirm the anti semite stereotype.

    1. 6:43:

      Getting fleeced by a law school is racially and religiously neutral. Don Le Duc of Cooley is not a Hebrew or member of my Tribe of Chosen. Reading stuff like your post makes me want to take the prawfs and dean sides. Please, no bigotry. We have enough trouble with the Law Deans and Profs who are well respected and seen as "experts." They call us vulgar, whiners, ungrateful, lazy...the big one, bringing down the Rule of Law.

    2. Actually, Fuchsberg was foolish enough to donate money to Touro College for its new "law center." Jews often get scammed by other Jews. Only the true sociopaths like Bernie Madoff come out ahead in Jewish affinity fraud.

  21. Nando - how can someone submit helpful information to you? Is there an email address, etc.?

    1. It's on this website, first page, on the right.

    2. I don't see it anywhere. I tried different browsers to see if it made a difference. Can someone just post the email address for those of us who can't see it? Thanks.

  22. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/touro-law-school-email-acceptance_568c1700e4b0b958f65d2aec?utm_hp_ref=education&ir=Education&section=education

    On January 5, 2016, the Huffington Post published a piece from news editor Hillary Hanson, under the headline “Law School Sends Acceptance Emails To Thousands Who Never Applied.” Here is the full text of that coverage:

    “And people say getting into law school is hard.

    Touro Law Center in Long Island, New York, sent out thousands of emails on New Year's Eve congratulating the recipients on their acceptance to the school. However, "almost none" of those 17,572 individuals had even applied, a Touro spokeswoman told The Huffington Post.

    Just one was a person who had applied but hadn't actually been accepted, she said. The spokeswoman described the others as a "list of prospective students."

    An anonymous tipster sent Above the Law a screenshot of the email and the ensuing apology from the dean. The legal news site, which first reported the mishap, noted that Touro Law -- more formally, Touro College Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center -- was voted the "worst law school" in New York by Above the Law readers in 2011.

    The mistake was slightly less painful than Carnegie Mellon’s mix-up last year, when the university erroneously mailed 800 acceptance letters to students who had actually applied and been rejected. Time pointed out that these sorts of mistakes are alarmingly common.

    The Touro spokeswoman said that administrators and admissions staff have already met to "put safeguards in place to ensure this will not happen again."

    First of all, who the hell says it is difficult to get into law school? I have known some morons who had to apply several times before gaining admission. One particular piece of trash had to apply to law school for three or four consecutive years before being admitted to a filthy cesspool. Now, the waterhead is drowning in ridiculous sums of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. Do you want to end up that way, Dumbass?!?! Hell, people are now being accepted to law school with 142 LSAT scores. I'm sure some of those dolts are even receiving some scholarship money to attend.

    Secondly, it appears that TTTTouro purchases some sort of listing. How else would the swine have a database of 17,572 individuals who never even applied for admission to their garbage law school? I guess that's how "non-profit" in$titution$ operate. After all, they need to keep up enrollment.

    1. Nando, you're right; if I remember correctly, when you're completing the LSAT forms, there's a block to check(or uncheck) if you want to receive communications from law schools. My guess is that the LSAT list was bought by Tuoro(and other schools, no doubt) which is why so many people received the email.

    2. Everyone who has taken the LSAT in the past 20 years remembers getting bombarded with glossy brochures from all manner and location of toilets. That's exactly what Touro did here - some dunce in the admission dept sent this email to the prospective students list instead of the admitted students list.

  23. Notice how the acceptance letter immediately links acceptance into law school with employment (i.e., “welcome to the profession”). The dictionary defines “profession” as “a type of job that requires special education, training, or skill.” It’s clear the school is eager to implicitly link itself to gainful employment.

    All any law school can provide is a degree. And thanks in large part to law schools, “the profession” is now choking on a surfeit of increasingly desperate attorneys who are turning on each other in a struggle to keep their creditors at bay. A law school cannot welcome you into the profession any more than the sporting goods store can make you a QB in the NFL.

    Right now, there’s no profession for you. Law neither wants nor needs you.

    1. Oh they're eager to make that connection now.

      But after 3 years they and everyone else will be loudly and condescendingly proclaim "education does not guarantee a job" and that the kids should "not be so entitled and should just work any job they can get." However if they see said educated working at say a fast food restaurant, the mocking will then start "what a loser, should have gotten a degree, those jobs are meant for teenagers and not to survive off of."

      The courts of course will also insist "there is no fraud because there were no promises or reliance, nobody could possible think they could get a job from law school" but then the competing cognitive dissonance: "the loans can't be discharged because the graduates are highly skilled professionals that will inevitably make six figure incomes and a million dollars+ over their lifetimes."

      How is it possible to have so much doublethink at once? Well, it most certainly is. That is the realm of "logic" and "intelligence."

      These academics and judges are geniuses. If you can't see that, well, there's something wrong with you of course. Do you see those robes? They're not naked, those black robes are the marks of distinction and intelligence, they're certainly not naked.

    2. Riiight!

      You're a worthless POS - AFTER you spend that $150-$200 grand on us!

      You captured perfectly my own school's attitude as I entered 3L, 2S.

      Oh, I remember it well..

      It's all about the Benjamins. They love you going in, but once your Student Loan Potential has dried up, you're suddenly a carpet flea worthy of the Boot.

      Oh, I remembered that attitude. Each and every fucking goddamn time my school called, emailed, or wrote asking for money. And I'll remember it for life.

    3. Tttouro Law. Welcome to the "profession". Yeah, the janitorial profession. Hahaha

  24. Their "list of prospective students" was probably a database purchased from the LSAC. Law skules can buy a list of, say, all test-takers who scored between 140 and 150. Even second-tier Columbia buys that sort of list.

    And 142 on the LSAT? That would be a high score at many a toilet. It might well get one a "scholarship". For the past few years, people have been getting in with scores in the 120s, even at top-of-the-fourth-tier institutions such as the Univershitty of Texas.

    1. Columbia a second tier school? Maybe not quite HYS, but still an elite school. Wonder what the water mark is at Columbia for big law--maybe top 60% of the class? But like everywhere else, probably only 10% of the associates who do make big law survive the rat race to become partners. Still better bet to be a municipal employee or a skilled tradesman without the crushing debt.

    2. The real tier list is a lot smaller than the USNWR garbage. When people in the know mention a Tier 1 they mean really 3 schools, some even cut it down to 2. And Tier 2 is a bit bigger but it's still around half a dozen. Same with tier 3.

      Tier 4 and below is everything else, because they're all worthless. These are the real tiers that high level attorneys and corporate entities think of.

      I've seen it listed online before but it's not widely propagated. But talk to anyone that's actually affluent and they all seem to know.

    3. Here's my list, recently posted at OTLSS:

      Tier 1: Harvard, Yale
      Tier 2: Chicago, Columbia, NYU, Penn, Stanford
      Tier 3: Berkeley, Cornell, Duke, Michigan, Northwestern, Virginia
      Tier 4: All other accredited law schools. (Unaccredited ones—yes, this includes you, Indiana Tech—are not classified at all.)


      I've been popularizing this correct terminology (by speaking of "second-tier Columbia" and the like) in order to defeat the arbitrary categories of You Ass News.

      Better still would be to eliminate the fourth tier and insist that only the other three tiers counted.

  25. Hey, very nice site. I came across this on Google, and I am stoked that I did. I will definitely be coming back here more often. Wish I could add to the conversation and bring a bit more to the table, but am just taking in as much info as I can at the moment. Thanks for sharing.
    Potty Seats

    Keep Posting:)

  26. All you posters are preaching to the choir here. You have to post at the Faculty Lounge Blog. I can't be the only one that posts. They are trying to silence me. One prawf responded to my post that his data shows that the average salary for all attorneys in 2014 was approximately $114K and that the sector is gaining jobs and there is stable employment. Post here for the newbies and then go to the Faculty Lounge Blog.

    1. Here's the problem: it depends on what statistics you want to believe, and it clearly all depends on who is willing to report his or her salary. For example, the ABA stats on average salary are very high; even the mean salary for the BLS are well north of 100K. Frankly, I believe that both embrace a huge selection bias, as only people doing well report a salary. That said, the informatin on 114,000 clearly came from here:
      Now that number is median, not mean, but I'd argue it's flat inaccurate. There are just too many people getting crucified by their loans-not just recent grads-and everybody can make payments on 114K/year. It just isn't accurate, but unfortunately I don't have the resources to do the full study.

    2. Kudos for visiting that blog and seeing what the professors really think, but you'd have better luck persuading a pack of hyenas to become vegetarians than you'll have convincing any of the learned profs that the market for lawyers stinks. First, they've never practiced law-or did so very, very briefly, and second, and more important, they have an abiding, genuine, and sincere loathing of law students. They really just don't care, so long as the loan $$$ supply their cushy lifestyle. Convince on of the denizens of that blog of the reality of the legal market? Sisyphus had an easier task.

    3. They appear to know about the state of legal work/employment. One professor equated my comment with the incendiary Westboro Baptist Church and that I PERSOMALLY insulted him. They can drink and celebrate AALS trade show, but when it comes to one of their unemployed alum, we are yesterday's trash.

  27. Check out the Admi$$ion$ page for this putrid dung heap:


    “At Touro Law Center, we recognize that a strong, innovative program begins with the right students: Individuals who not only demonstrate an ability to successfully pursue the study of law, but the passion to do so; who will make a contribution to our educational program, to the legal profession . . . and to our society.

    If you share our passion, we’d like to hear from you. Meet us at a local recruiting event or contact our admissions professionals for information on:

    • Admissions criteria for new students, transfer and visiting students and LL.M. candidates
    • Applications procedures and requirements
    • Scholarships for new students
    • Housing options”

    The pigs forgot to mention that they are so “selective,” that they send out acceptance letters to thousands of people who never even applied to this pile of excrement. What a “prestigious” in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion of “higher learning,” huh?!?! By the way, save your "passion" for the bedroom.

    Now, head to the Apply Online link below:


    “Apply Online - No Application Fee!

    Thank you for your interest in applying to Touro Law Center.

    Please select below which program applies to you and follow the link to the online application. All applications will be processed in a timely manner. If you need additional information, please contact our Office of Admissions at (631) 761-7010.

    J.D. Programs

    2-Year Accelerated J.D. - Online Application | PDF Application
    J.D. - Online Application | PDF Application

    Transfer Student - Online Application | PDF Application

    Visiting Student - PDF Application”

    The cockroaches then list application hyperlinks to programs for foreign trained lawyers. Nothing spells desperation such as “Apply Online – No Application Fee!” That’s the equivalent of a woman telling you that she’ll sleep with your ass on the first date, if you take her out in public. Hell, I’m surprised the bastards don’t shell out a $50 gift card to every moron who actually applies to this cesspool.

    1. The only "ability" required to be admitted to Ttttouro is the ability to be rejected by any decent law school.

  28. Nando, it's shit like this that makes me wonder why ITT tech, UoPhoenix, or Devry don't just say "fuck it!" and grab their own piece of such a tasty student loan debt pie. Better yet, Kaplan should start an online program; that way, even fatass basement trolls can dive themselves into tens of thousands of dollars of student loan debt from the comfort of their sofa.

  29. Take a peek at the LSN profile for this stink pit:


    “Touro Law School Admissions

    Touro Law School is considered a Somewhat Competitive law school, which accepts only 65% of its applicants. Comparatively, Touro is Higher than the average cost for law school.

    Class of 2019

    Applications: 1362
    Offers 873: (64.10%)
    Matriculated: 242 (17.8%)
    25th Percentile UGPA: 2.87
    Median UGPA: 3.11
    75th Percentile UGPA: 3.35
    25th Percentile LSAT: 146
    Median LSAT: 148
    75th LSAT: 150”

    Yes, the school is somewhat competitive, since they “only” accept slightly under 2/3 of all applicants. Look at the numbers of the applicants, people. By the way, the percentage offered is still pretty damn high.

    “Touro Law School Employment

    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The Touro College class of 2014 had an employment rate of 71% with 2% pursuing an additional degree.”

    Do you want to owe an additional $185K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for some fancy toilet paper?!?! If this is the best school you can get into, that is a clear sign that you need to pursue other work in a different field.

    1. I'll have you know Mr. Lando, if that is your real name, that Touro is one of the finest law schools in the land, only falling short of Oxford, Harvard, and Yale. How dare you compare such an esteemed institution to fecal matter!


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