Monday, May 16, 2016

Staying Afloat: First Tier Toilet University of Minnesota School of Law Experiences a Big-Ass Drop in Applications Since 2010

The New Normal Arrives: On May 12, 2015, New York Times DealBook featured a lengthy article, by reporter Elizabeth Olson, under the banner headline “Minnesota Law School, Facing Waning Interest, Cuts Admissions.” Check out this portion of her conclusion:

“Even with taxpayer money coming in the door, Minnesota has been offsetting its expenses by shedding staff and leaving faculty openings unfilled. It has also explored new ways to strengthen graduate employment rates, which are another factor in maintaining its national reputation. The law school is adding a Minnesota Law Public Interest Residency Program, in which third-year students work full time in public interest and government jobs and earn a full-time paid position with the same organization for a year after graduation. 

More than 50 percent of the school’s graduates stay in Minnesota, typically working at a locally headquartered corporation like Target or General Mills. Another slice of graduates joins small firms with two to 10 lawyers, or large law firms, or enters the public interest sector. As law firms have merged, however, there are fewer jobs, said David B. Potter, a Minnesota law graduate who is active in raising money for the school. 

“We’ve had consolidation in the job market here,” said Mr. Potter, a partner at the law firm Fox Rothschild in Minneapolis. “Perhaps we don’t have the same variety of jobs that we once did.” Other strong supporters in the local legal community include the former Vice President Walter Mondale, an alumnus and a senior counsel at Dorsey & Whitney, a major Minneapolis law firm. Mr. Mondale actively backs the school – the dean’s office is in Mondale Hall — but even efforts like a recent $73 million fund-raising campaign cannot sustain a law school with a $54.8 million annual budget. 

Some $13 million of that campaign was slated for needy students because Minnesota, like most schools, has expanded its financial aid, giving varying amounts to 90 percent of its students so they do not pay full price.

“People are turned off on legal education because of a lack of suitable paying jobs,” Mr. Mondale said. “I don’t think you can underestimate the havoc that these law school debts can cause.” [Emphasis mine]

You will notice that the cockroaches are still trying to game the employment placement statistics, with its “public interest residency program.” The bigger news is that we now have a former Vice President of the United States – and current Biglaw senior counsel – on record, stating that “legal education” can wreak havoc on the graduates. That is a great development. Hell, the Univer$ity of Minne$ota Sewer of Law is located in Walter F. Mondale Hall.

Other Coverage: On May 13, 2016 Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal managing editor Mark Reilly posted an article, which was entitled “University of Minnesota Law School slashes enrollment as demand cools.” Enjoy the full text below:

“There are a lot more empty seats in the University of Minnesota Law School's classes these days. 

The New York Times reports its move to significantly cut enrollment, responding to a nationwide decline in interest for law degrees. The U of M's first-year law class size is down to 174 students, 30 percent lower than a few years ago. 

Prior to the recession, law schools were enjoying a boom. But demand plummeted after 2010, when many law-school graduates found they couldn't find jobs that would justify the cost of the degree. 

It's not just the U of M facing the decline; schools across the country have been cutting staff in recent years. Last year, the Hamline University School of Law and William Mitchell College of Law merged. The U of M's enrollment decline has been the largest of major schools, though; officials aren't sure why. 

The University of Minnesota could have kept enrollment up by lowering admissions standards — taking in students who might otherwise have gone to a lower-ranked law school, for example. But officials didn't want to hurt the U of M's own standing as one of the nation's Top 25-ranked law schools. Another option: cutting tuition, as Iowa did in 2014, which helped reverse a decline in applications. 

With fewer students comes lower tuition income, which is being supplemented at the U of M by subsidies from the school's Board of Regents, which has given $16.1 million to close law-school deficits through 2018.” [Emphasis mine]

Keep taking more money from the taxpayers, bitches. That will surely make them happy. Remember, the public views lawyers just a shade above used car salesmen – in terms of overall reputation. Then again, the swine who operate ABA-accredited toilets merely want to extend the scam until they reach the time when they want to retire. 

Ranking: As you can see, the University of Minnesota School of Law is rated as the 22nd best law school in the entire country, by US “News” & World Report. Do you still want to attend commodes ranked in the second and third tier, Dumbass?!?!

Conclusion: The commode has resorted to faculty buyouts, in order to cope with the drop in applicants. Hell, the bastards even removed coffee from the faculty lounge. That must have been some crisis, huh?!?! Apparently, the pigs figured out that many of the remaining applicants – and more importantly, those who enroll – are willing to accept some tuition reductions, i.e. “scholarships,” while paying a high premium. After all, these students are attending a top 25 law school. Wait until these dolts graduate and see that the legal job market is still GLUTTED. Don’t give the swine too much credit for supposedly maintaining admission standards. They lowered tuition for many students, knowing that they could always resort to more handouts, in order to make up the shortfall. That is disgraceful conduct.


  1. They ran out of coffee? Oh noes!

    Heh, reminds me of that scene from the Airplane! movies...
    "Are you telling us absolutely everything!?"
    "No sir, we're also all out of coffee."
    *panic ensues*

  2. Here you go Nando, another nail in the current law skule cartel coffin:

    "A Major Law Firm Will Soon Be Using A Robotic Lawyer"

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingMay 18, 2016 at 8:25 AM

      Folks use and pay lawyers for guidance and judgment.

  3. Great post, Nando, as this highlights so much of what is wrong with attending law school:
    1. The USNWR rankings-Minnesota is #22-seriously? This school has no, as in zero, reputation outside Minnesota-and based on the drop off of applicants, not much there. So take Nando's advice, kids, and if you insist on going to law school, only attend top 8 w/$$$
    2. Taxpayer money to keep the fat cat administrators/law profs from actually having to practice law. Please note that the school actually is supplying dubious information-they aren't giving $$$ to "needy" students-they are giving it to the (relatively) high-scorers they hope to entice to attend so they can keep their USNWR phoney-baloney ranking.
    3. Normal market forces-i.e. the huge drop off in applicants and attendees-should make for big changes in this school-but no, the taxpayers are there for the bail-out.

    And if you want, forget everything else-there is a gigantic glut of lawyers-don't go to law school, especially at a trap school like Minnesota.

    1. Point (1) illustrates the folly of this "first tier" jive. The first tier consists of Harvard, Yale, and maybe Stanford. The school that happens to be ranked 49 or 50 by You Ass News is certainly not in a league with those three. It is, however, in a league with #51 and #200—not to mention #20.

  4. Have to disagree with Nando on this one--this is one of a handful of law schools that has the integrity to maintain standards by reducing its class size. This is actually a breath of fresh air compared to most trap schools that continue to lower standards in a race to bottom. EG Georgetown and Emory...

  5. On several occasions you mention how professors are there just to churn out more indebted students. This article supports your premise and states the primary purpose of professors is to publish scholarship both for personal and university prestige. In other words, students and their indoctrination of theoretical and practical education is SECONDARY. This is an aside to the shrinking market itself.

    Anyway this article was written in 1989 and it is ever so applicable to the law school industry:

  6. Team AAMPLE:

    I salute you Nando! Great work! Lets hope this is the beginning to a nationwide law school tuition realignment to reflect fairness and the current economic climate.

    Most HCBU's average 14k to 19k per year for tuition, but there is still room for improvement!

    Old Guy.... Do you Concur ???

    1. @1256,

      Pretty sure that 'Old Guy' would like to pound you in the poop hole until you split in two. You'd probably like it too ...

      You seem to have anal poisoning from Old Guy!

    2. 12:56a-ok, once more, it's "HBCU" and again, the HBCU law schools don't participate in the AAMPLE program.
      So, let's turn off the TV, get off the couch, leave your parents' basement, and see what the real world is about.

      If you bother to read the post, there is no "law school tuition realignment"-just the taxpayers bailing out the fat cats.
      And you ought to be ashamed of yourself-we all know that "most HCBU's(sic) average 14k-19k per year for tuition" is just plain false.
      Out of state tuition(not including books/fees/room & board):
      FAMU: $34,034.59
      Howard: $31,148(both in and OOS)
      Southern University: $24,160
      Even ones that have low tuition(e.g.NCCU) have genuinely terrible employment stats: for class of 2015, for NCCU class of 171 graduates, 54(!) were unemployed per the ABA stats.
      So three years wasted, with not just tuition costs but books/fees/room and board-and you're still recommending this-you ought to be ashamed. If even only one poor soul takes your advice, his/her life could be ruined.
      And AAMPLE? Here's tuition alone for the AAMPLE schools:
      Florida Coastal $42,300
      Charlotte $41,088
      Arizona Summit $43,966

      And let's not forget that the AAMPLE program costs another $1,000.00.

      You seem proud of the fact that you are incapable of actually dealing with facts, and proud that you're utterly clueless about the crushing burden of useless law school debt and the overall state of the legal profession-so two questions:
      1. How long have you been practicing law; and
      2. Have you agreed to co-sign loans for AAMPLE students?
      Enough with the bad fact-free advice; it's time for you to just go away.

    3. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingMay 18, 2016 at 8:23 AM

      AAAMPLE fellow:

      Don't you mean HBCU? How does one have a beginning to? Beginning "of" ? It would be correct to say begin to. Also AAMPLE is not an HBCU construct. It is an Infin-Law Corporate Equity fund school concept. HBCU's are traditional, respected law schools that folks are proud to attend. Your AAMPLE Infin-Law school is dreck. The entire profession knows that and your posts are an insult to folks who come from diverse backgrounds and busted their butts at traditional law schools. AAMPLE has cheapened everybody's credentials.

    4. @726/823,

      Don't even waste time on that dingleberry. He's only here because of his crazed desire for OldCry cock. That's what this is really all about for him.

      On the plus side, he seems to have actually embarrassed that idiot OldCry into leaving the site. I'd be embarrassed too if I had a 75-IQ gay stalker who filled up the board with questions about whether I 'concur' with him.

  7. Just goes to show that you need to go to a top law school. 22nd is nice but not good enough. What percentage of UMN's class gets biglaw every year? It's just not worth the cost.

  8. I attended UM as an undergrad. My take is that they're trying to do the right thing by reducing student headcount. I was alarmed to see that UM Law costs upwards of $50K per year. That is outrageous for a public school. Other factors: It's damn cold in Minnesota. Most people don't want to spend 3 years of law school in such inclement weather. Lastly, I have to agree with another poster that UM Law's reputation outside of Minnesota or within a few states in either direction isn't the best. It is ranked #22, but I would not call it a national school. Unless you are from the Midwest and anticipate practicing there, I would look elsewhere for law school. That said, I have been told MN is extremely saturated with lawyers. There just isn't enough work there to support the hordes of new lawyers - Period, full stop. There are, however, a lot a nice looking blond women, which is probably the reason I decided to attend as an undergrad. Curtains match the drapes too! :)

  9. Norm Gunderson: They announced it.
    Marge Gunderson: They announced it?
    Norm Gunderson: Yeah.
    Marge Gunderson: So?
    Norm Gunderson: Third tier trash.
    Marge Gunderson: Your law school?
    Norm Gunderson: Yeah.
    Marge Gunderson: Oh, that's terrific.
    Norm Gunderson: It's just third tier.
    Marge Gunderson: It's terrific.
    Norm Gunderson: Harvard's first tier. People don't have much use for third tier.
    Marge Gunderson: Oh, for Pete's sake. Of course they do. Whenever they raise the unemployment rate, people need the little law schools.

  10. On May 13, 2016, JDU denizen "ichininosan" started a thread labeled "Minnesota Law School receives $18 million infusion to stay afloat." Look at the following portion of that discussion:

    ichininosan (May 13, 2016 - 11:40 am)

    If Minnesota is facing an $18 million dollar deficit, most other schools in the Midwest are likely to be facing similar financial dilemmas.

    quillan (May 13, 2016 - 12:39 pm)

    That's almost certainly true re hardship for other schools, esp. the smaller ones. The article is interesting, though clearly it is not written by someone who is overly familiar with law schools (50% of new grads do not go to work for local corporations, in Minnesota or anywhere else in the country). A couple key points. It is much easier to maintain standards for schools that are part of large research universities. In the good times the law schools spun off a ton of cash that the universities used for other purposes, like funding medical research labs. It's odd that this fact is never mentioned in the MSM articles, but the dynamic is clearly one of these law schools being able to very convincingly say "you owe us" to their associated universities. A more puzzling question in the article is why applications are down so hard at Minnesota. Roughly in order of importance, I suspect it is a combination of too many law schools locally (even after the Hamline/Mitchell merger), below-market associate comp in Minnesota, a better-educated populace (so less likely to fall for the scam and/or better able to attend T14 and return home), and the six months of cold/darkness. On the other hand, the Minnesota economy is booming, and law firms are short of help. At least for U of MN Law, I suspect, a meaningful bottom has formed and better days are ahead. Which makes sense - with almost any phenomenon of this type, by the time a generalist reporter at a major MSM publication finds the story, it's over.


    municipald1 (May 13, 2016 - 1:39 pm)

    That's a pretty well reported article that hits on all of the major points of the law school situation from the last five years.

    The main thing that stuck out for me is how tech is booming while law isn't. Why in the world would anyone slug it out in law if anything in tech is remotely an option?

    Minnesota's plan (cutting admission) is a far better approach than lowering qualifications. Overall, law schools aren't that expensive to run. Minnesota will be fine.

    Do you still want to take the plunge, lemming?! Perhaps, you will realize that it is better to stay in a good job where you can work your way up and make real connections. Don't piss away your future, for the law school swine.


    Other Coverage: Back on February 11, 2016, Josh Verges of the Twin Cities Pioneer Press published an article entitled “UMN law school losses expected to reach $16M by 2018.” Enjoy this opening:

    "With applicants down by half since 2010, the University of Minnesota Law School has been buying out faculty, soliciting more donations and accepting cash transfers from the U to cover operating deficits.

    “We cut the coffee in the faculty lounge, and I get more complaints about that than all the other faculty cuts combined,” dean David Wippman told the Board of Regents’ finance committee Thursday.

    Wippman said the U’s law school has been hit hard by national trends: The number of U.S. law schools has grown by 50 percent over the past 50 years, and they have produced more lawyers than the market needs.

    The same trends influenced the recently approved merger of St. Paul’s William Mitchell and Hamline University’s law school, which reduced the number of Minnesota law schools to three.
    Wippman said he expects that by 2018, the U law school will have needed $16.1 million in transfers from the U to cover losses since 2012.

    “We have not been able to reduce spending quickly enough,” he said.

    The law school enrolled 176 new students last year, down from 260 in 2010. During that period, the number of applicants fell to 1,984 from 3,865.

    Wippman said that for whatever reason, the Great Plains has seen an especially large drop in law school prospects. Minnesota has had the nation’s largest decline in Law School Admission Test (LSAT) takers, followed by Wisconsin, he said."

    As you can see, the law school pigs care more about the loss of their precious coffee than they do about YOU, prospective law student/rape victim. After all, YOU are just a mean$ to an end. And all that talk about "social justice" and "serving others" is cheap and meaningless. Don't take the bait, idiot.

  12. I see we are back to NSFW pix again..Not good for Old Ruster's easily-upset stomach..


    On May 15, 2016, the Law School Truth Center featured an entry labeled "Citizens of Minnesota Investing in Legal Education." Take a look at this hilarious piece, when you have a moment. Here is an excerpt:

    "Minnesota - a state of 5.5 million people now somehow functioning with only 3.5 law schools - understands the importance of legal education and the need to bankroll tomorrow's jurisprudence (indeed, the Rule of Law itself) by directing stupidly insane amounts of public money to pseudo-prestigious second-tier schools despite any temporary market ambivalence.

    Consider the University of Minnesota Law School. Between being associated with a reputable state flagship school and being the number one law school in the fourteenth (14th!) largest metro area in the United States, ranking agencies and students have historically ignored the minor inconveniences of the frozen urethra and a regional saturation of justice warriors.

    As a result, Minnesota remains one of the strongest law school brand names in the Midwest. If Mitchell Hamline can rake in a million dollar premium over the life of a lawyer, U. of M graduates are probably looking at 1.2. That's a lot of space heaters, kids.

    Unfortunately, something has scared off the lemmings.

    The number of law school applicants nationwide has plummeted, to 51,000 as of April from 88,700 in 2006, according to the Law School Admissions Council. The Great Lakes region has been hit particularly hard, catching respected institutions like Minnesota by surprise when applicant numbers went into a tailspin.

    But even though public interest is being tempered by temporary irrationality, the State of Minnesota understands the importance of the Harvard of Minneapolis-St. Paul.

    Minnesota has gradually admitted fewer students, shrinking its first-year class to only 174 in the 2015 academic year from more than 250 a few years ago. It offset the sharp loss in tuition income with more public subsidies, which in Minnesota are decided by a Board of Regents.

    Minnesota’s law school has closed its deficits with university money — expected to total $16.1 million through 2018 — according to university officials.

    “The law school is a crucial part of the university,” said Karen Hanson, the university’s provost. “We did not want to hurt the law school’s standing.”

    $16.1 million. Ignoring some variables that would get in the way of an otherwise good point, every man, woman, and child in Minnesota has effectively given the University of Minnesota Law School an extra $2.92 cash injection, as if out of their own pockets to donate to lawyerdom."

    That site is comedy gold. Then again, the author has plenty of material to work with, thanks to moronic lemmings and greedy law school cockroaches. Still, the writing is hilarious and first rate.


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