Monday, August 15, 2016

ABA Cockroaches Actually Recommend Not Accrediting University of North Texas Dallas College of Law


http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20160808-unt-dallas-law-school-in-danger-of-not-getting-accredited.ece

Welcome News: On August 8, 2016, the Dallas Morning News publised an article from reporter Holly K. Hacker, under the headline “UNT Dallas Law School in danger of not getting accredited.” Enjoy the following excerpt:

“Dallas’ first public law school is in danger of not being accredited because it enrolls too many struggling students, a new report said. 

The UNT Dallas College of Law also has a shaky financial plan, according to a key advisory group of the American Bar Association, which accredits the nation’s law schools. 

The group advised against accreditation — a crucial seal of approval. 

In Texas, only graduates of accredited schools can take the Texas bar exam. And they must pass the exam to practice law in the state. 

The recommendation is a huge blow to the law school, part of the University of North Texas at Dallas. The law school was years in the making before it opened in downtown Dallas two years ago with the goal of serving a diverse student body and charging low tuition. 

School leaders broke the news to students Friday. Dean Royal Furgeson said Monday that the disappointing recommendation is not final. School leaders will go before a council of the bar association in October and argue why the school deserves accreditation.

“We’re glad we have a chance to go to the council and make our case, which we will do vigorously,” said Furgeson, a former U.S. District judge. If that doesn’t work, he said, “We’re gonna do whatever it takes to get there.” Schools can reapply. 

In the meantime, the college would ask the Texas Supreme Court to let its graduates to take the state bar exam. The school will graduate its first class this year.” [Emphasis mine]

Perhaps, the ABA cockroaches figure that they must publicly show that they have some standards. Then again, the rodents have accredited dozens of steaming excrement piles that charge insane amounts in annual tuition. 

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/new_texas_law_school_not_recommended_for_aba_accreditation

Other Coverage: On August 10, 2016, the ABA Journal posted a Stephanie Francis Ward story that was entitled “New Texas law school not recommended for ABA accreditation.” Look at this wondrous opening:

“The ABA’s accreditation committee has recommended that the University of North Texas Dallas College of Law not receive accreditation, the school’s dean told the ABA Journal, and he plans a response. 

“We will get a fair hearing,” says Royal Furgeson Jr., UNT Dallas Law’s dean and a former U.S. district court judge in the Northern District of Texas. “We’ll tell the council that there’s a giant need for affordable law schools like us, and we’re going to meet that need.”

Barry A. Currier, the ABA’s managing director of accreditation and legal education, said the council of the ABA Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar does not comment on pending recommendations. 

The recommendation presents an interesting contrast between accreditation requirements and law school intent. According to the Dallas Morning News, the ABA committee cited a large number of students with low LSAT scores at the school, and was concerned that students were being admitted who would be unable to pass the bar exam. The article also notes that last fall, one-fifth of the school’s first-year class was placed on academic probation. Additionally, the school admitted 17 students who were dismissed from other law schools, mostly for bad grades. 

But it is just this type of student that led Furgeson to become the founding dean of UNT Dallas Law. A 2014 Huffington Post article said, “Furgeson and his admissions staff are relying less on GPA and LSAT scores … in favor of recommendations and life experience.” [Emphasis mine]

Of course, the pigs state that they are now in favor of recommendations and “life experience.” This is code for “We will take anyone with a pulse.” Hell, why not give applicants additional points for a personal statement as to why they want to go to law school?!?! If they manage to type up such a letter – and have less than 10 grammatical or spelling errors – perhaps they can even get a partial scholarship, i.e. tuition discount.

https://lawschool.untsystem.edu/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/documents/pdfs/resident_1l_fall_2016_rev3.29.16_logo.pdf

In-State Tuition: For $ome rea$on, the swine provide these figures on a per semester basis. I suppose they feel that the price tag does not look quite so steep when it is presented this way. At any rate, Texas residents attending this cesspool will face tuition and fees of $15,859.90 – for the 2016-2017 academic year. By law school measures, that is affordable. However, remember this is a three year program, and opportunity costs and living expenses should also be considered before taking the plunge. Also, take garbage job prospects into account, genius.

https://lawschool.untsystem.edu/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/documents/pdfs/non-resident_1l_fall_2016_rev3.29.16_logo.pdf

Non-Resident Tuition: Those foolish enough to move to Texas, in order to attend this trash pit, will be charged $27,989.10 in tuition and fees – for the 2016-2017 school year. That is a steep price, especially for a commode with no alumni base or proven results. If you have a decent job, I don’t understand why you would even contemplate enrolling in such a toilet.

Conclusion: The Univer$iTTTTTy of NorTTTTTh TTTTTexa$ Dalla$ Commode of Law is trying to justify its decision to admit those who have little chance of passing the bar exam, by stating that it factors in life experience and recommendations. So if the shift manager at Starbucks writes a nice letter for Dumbass, then that should be given serious weight?! Real law schools don’t care about anything other than strong LSAT scores and perhaps an undergrad degree from a top university. I wouldn’t bet against the ABA eventually accrediting this sewer.

31 comments:

  1. A prediction: UNT takes the Indiana Tech route, and after not getting accredited its first go round, hires a dean/consultant at 225+K to grease the wheels-then, presto chango, they get provisional accreditation. Everyone gets to take the Texas bar; the bar results will be telling.

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  2. They shouldn't either : there are plenty of law schools in the DFW area that can serve current "need." In fact, there are too many already, pumping out too many graduates.

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    Replies
    1. 8:02 am:
      Since when has "need for lawyers" been part of the equation for determining where and when a new law school should open??

      Delete
  3. I tried to find the salary of Royal Furgeson Jr. (the dean of that law school) but couldn't find it.

    Legally it should be available since he works for a public entity. I looked up a lot of other faculty member salaries - but his is no where to be found. Can anybody else find it?

    I'd be interested to see how much that old fart is overpaid.

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  4. ABA will deny to show how tough it is. Grrrrrrrrr.

    Just kidding. If pressed to justify keeping Arizona Summit open while simultaneously denying UNT, it will fold like a wet noodle.

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  5. If only they had an AAMPLE program they would have been in a different situation.

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  6. Zero Big Law Jobs. Zero Federal Clerkships. No breasts. No aardvarking. $250,000 in debt-fu. Severe depression, contemplating-suicide-fu. Rule against perpetuities-fu. Socratic-method-professor-hiding-the-answer-fu. Whatever-that-freaking-case-with-that-stupid-fox-fu. A gazillion on the vomit meter. Joe Bob says stay away at all costs!

    (With apologies to Texas' Joe Bob Briggs and his drive-in movie reviews.)

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  7. Texas could afford to lose 5 law schools. And then maybe they'd have enough jobs for graduates in the state.

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  8. Guys, I know it's bad news for the school above. But Seton Hall law school is still a great value.

    Graduates are able to land decent positions still, so in all fairness the law school situation is not all doom and gloom!!!

    Just minimize the debt load. Jobs in NJ are not to hard to get!

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  9. I concur with the poster above. You have a fighting chance at Big Law, if attending Seton Hall for Law School.

    There will be long nights at the firm, but the salary alone will be enough to pay off tuition, get that Benz you always wanted, and save for that early retirement!

    You have to have faith! And if all else fails, remember the silver lining - IBR, then discharge the remaining debt after 20 to 25 years or sooner (depending on what H. Clinton has in store for us--- you never know).

    You only have one life to live. And being a lawyer is one of the highest callings in life!

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    Replies
    1. I met a girl who attended a fourth tier trash dump. The only "callings" she was getting was from her student debt collection agency.

      Delete
  10. I wonder how much start up money the Texas Legislature gave these guys for a law skool. What a stupid decision.

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  11. Seton Hall…great education:

    "…not to hard to get."

    "too!"

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  12. Seton Hall, tuition and fees: $52,000/year; per SH's website, total estimated cost of attendance annually: $74,500.
    Yep, that's a real bargain.

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  13. Don't get your hopes up that the ABA scumbags will do the right thing—it will continue to allow $cam "schools" to shit out lowly-credentialed, highly-indebted, student loan conduits at the expense of new lawyers.

    Don't forget that the ABA recommended against provisional accreditation for Indiana TTTTTech for a few months (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/indiana_tech_law_school_denied_provisional_accreditation/) before granting those fraudsters provisional accreditation (https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_education/resources/aba_approved_law_schools.html).

    The $cam artists will decry the same predictable bullshit (i.e. "diversity," "opportunity," and whatever other leftist dogwhistles university administrators refuse to defend against), so the likelihood that UNT is somewhere within the range where Indiana TTTTTech was at the time that they were denied—then provisionally accredited—is why I'm fairly confident that the ABA will, once again, shrink from its ethical obligation of policing the profession it selectively claims to represent.

    All is NOT well. The ABA cannot be trusted to look out for the interests of students.

    The scam lives on.

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  14. http://lawschooltruthcenter.blogspot.com/2016/08/totally-unfair-domino-style-backlash.html

    On August 13, 2016, the Law School Truth Center featured an entry labeled "Totally Unfair Domino-Style Backlash Against North Texas Dallas College of Law." Here is the full text below:

    "The ABA has come under unfair scrutiny recently. For example, last month Barry Currier and his friends were subject to the ignominy of a[n indirectly elected!] government bureaucratic regulatory team asking them non-softball questions. Da fuq? I thought this was America.

    Unfortunately, the ABA does not exist in a vacuum. While these allegations are baseless, the ABA has a need to appease the simple-minded peons out there who might stupidly expect a six-figure investment in legal education to actually break even (or better, as the data clearly show!).

    Thus, in an obvious domino reaction to these infantile wankers, the ABA committee on accreditation has recommended rejecting accreditation for the North Texas Dallas College of Law:
    According to the Dallas Morning News, the ABA committee cited a large number of students with low LSAT scores at the school, and was concerned that students were being admitted who would be unable to pass the bar exam. The article also notes that last fall, one-fifth of the school’s first-year class was placed on academic probation. Additionally, the school admitted 17 students who were dismissed from other law schools, mostly for bad grades.

    But it is just this type of student that led Furgeson to become the founding dean of UNT Dallas Law. A 2014 Huffington Post article said, “Furgeson and his admissions staff are relying less on GPA and LSAT scores … in favor of recommendations and life experience.”

    As someone who wholly believes in the school of hard knocks over what some "exam" or "first year grades" or "lack of malpractice claims" shows, I stand firmly behind Furgeson.

    So what if the school picks up rejects and kids who may not traditionally be able to practice law in any conventional sense? If the kids want to go there, and the government - an elected government - makes an informed choice to pump $56 million into the school to meet the demand for JDs, no trade organization subcommittee should throw a spanner in the churn 'n' burn because some effete turds want to enforce some "rational regulations."

    $56 million. I think I trust the wise State of Texas, thanks. It's time for the ABA to [again] do the same and reverse this stupid "recommendation" that disadvantages those in the Dallas area who are desperate to have a low-cost, lifetime-altering law school that they attend instead of going out of state to meet the need for JDs in Texas.

    UPDATE: Despite print journalism's spot in the nursing home room closest to the morgue shuttle, the Dallas Morning News has taken up the flag of defending Texas' 10th ABA-accredited law school with two articles lashing back against elitist bureaucracy."

    Imagine the good that $56 million could have done, people. Then again, politicians typically use public funds to reward their investors/large campaign contributors. If the elected cockroaches had not pissed the money away on a useless and unnecessary law school, then they would have thrown it away on their overlords/donors in some other form. Call girls have a higher sense of ethics.

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  15. Seton Hall Alum here:


    you are right. overlook the tuition and you will have your one way ticket to big law!

    six figure salary!

    ReplyDelete
  16. This is off topic. But Campos' blog today on LGM about Cooley piqued my interest in the 2nd best law school in the nation. The Cooley website proclaims in big letters "Start September 2016" and contains a link on how to get started. It is August 17 and Cooley is still taking applications.

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    Replies
    1. 2nd best? You're kidding me right? You meant 2nd shittiest law school in the nation.

      Delete
    2. Sorry, I was joking about the time in 2011 when Cooley released their own version of the law school rankings. They ranked themselves as the #2 law school behind Harvard! I'm not sure how the layoffs of over half the faculty has impacted their ranking.

      Delete
    3. Campos got boring. He's been ranting about Trump for 8 months now. "Trump is Racist! Racist! Racist! Russian Agent! Oh, here's something about Cooley... Trump!"

      Delete
  17. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 17, 2016 at 8:00 PM

    They will obtain accreditation. How do I know that? I am a good lawyer. I know everything. The ABA told them in HUSH HUSH talks to just "go to the movies" until the flames die down and the heat is off.... This is just a ploy.....

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    1. The good Captain is correct; it's just about a sure bet that these guys eventually get provisional accreditation-after lots of hand-wringing, of course-to be followed in due course by full accreditation. The deal is already done.

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  18. Why are the pigs at UNTTTTT Dallas Law School so worried about accreditation? As pig Michael Simkovic has “proven,” a JD is worth ONE MILLION DOLLARS! Instead of spending the summer studying for the bar exam, lemmings from this dump can now spend the summer planning on how they will spend their million dollar premium. Plus, the pigs have always said you can do anything with a law degree, like work in business and politics. Hell, that pig Jack Marshall even claimed he was hired for a position that required a MD because he possessed the “versatile” JD. I’m sure the executives at Exxon Mobil, AT&T, Halliburton, and other Texas based companies are frantically calling their HR people telling them, “skip the recruiting trip to McCombs Business School. Instead of hiring UT MBAs, there is a class of JDs coming out of Dallas Law School who are not eligible for the bar. This is the perfect opportunity to lure these JDs into business management!”

    Strange, when the pigs need accreditation or need to justify their low standards, they squeal about the critical shortage of lawyers in their region or the lack of diversity in law. But when their victims complain that they graduate unemployed with $100k+ in debt, the pigs squeal, "you are an entitled loser! You can do anything with a law degree!"

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  19. http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20160812-unt-dallas-wants-to-make-law-school-less-elitist---and-that-could-be-its-downfall.ece

    On August 12, 2016 the Dallas Morning News and staff writer Holly K. Hacker followed up this story with a turd labeled "UNT-Dallas wants to make law school less elitist — and that could be its downfall." Try not to vomit, as you read this opening:

    "Officials at the UNT-Dallas College of Law tried something different. They welcomed a diverse group of students, many with grit but not the grades or test scores to get into top law schools. They kept tuition low to avoid six-figure debt.

    But that plan will succeed only if students graduate, pass the bar exam and find jobs. A key group with the American Bar Association doubts UNT-Dallas can pull it off, and has recommended that the school not be accredited.

    At stake are the futures of 360 students and more than $100 million that taxpayers have invested in the University of North Texas law school, which opened two years ago in downtown Dallas.

    The bar association accredits the nation’s law schools. Its role “is to safeguard the public interest by not allowing programs that aren’t up to snuff,” said Barry Currier, the ABA’s managing director of accreditation and legal education. “The school’s job, which they’re taking very seriously, is to meet the standards.”

    Despite the setback, UNT’s mission continues to draw support.

    “We don’t need more carbon copies of existing law schools. We need more doing different things,” said Andrew Morriss, dean of Texas A&M’s law school in Fort Worth."

    Yes, the paper is ran by a bunch of bitches and cowards. More importantly, you will notice that Texas taxpayers have been bilked for more than $100 million, to develop this stench pit. Hell, that graft and "transfer of wealth" would bring a tear to Lyndon Johnson's eye.

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  20. Nando, did you see this? Apologies for double posting to OTTLSC.

    "Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, who attended Harvard Law and practiced law for five years before getting into finance, seems to think not.

    "'Of course, you get a lot out of law school — you learn a lot — but the most you get out of law school is debt,' Blankfein recently told a group of Goldman interns."

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  21. Now, for this zinger.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20160812-editorial-the-aba-must-give-unt-dallas-law-school-time-to-achieve-its-audacious-but-absolutely-vital-mission.ece

    On August 12, 2016, the Dallas Morning News published an editorial from an unnamed cockroach staff writer, under the header "The ABA must give UNT Dallas law school time to achieve its audacious, but absolutely vital, mission." Look at this excerpt:

    "It's a time for candor at the UNT Dallas College of Law, and a time for courage.

    As the new law school prepares to welcome its third class later this month, anxiety is running high. Earlier this week, the school disclosed that a committee of American Bar Association evaluators has recommended against accreditation for the school.

    Without eventual accreditation, the school cannot survive. Students set to become its first graduates next May could find themselves barred from even taking the bar exams in Texas or most any other state.

    We write today, however, to urge the students, their faculty, and the school's many backers to not despair. Courage and hope, and a bit of patience, are in order.

    The school has a strong case to make to the ABA, and it has time to make it. A decision on accreditation will not be made until October. Even a negative decision is not permanent, and can be revisited.

    But the main reason to not lose hope is because the school is on track to deliver on what everyone involved always knew was a tremendously ambitious -- and equally vital -- mission.

    Dallas, to say nothing of Texas, desperately needs this new law school because it needs the kind of lawyers it has promised to produce.

    The University of North Texas at Dallas aims to graduate would-be lawyers who come from more diverse backgrounds. It has pledged to train them differently[.]"

    Note the accompanying photo, showing four racial minorities sitting in class. Two black men, a black woman, and a man who appears to be Hispanic or Asian. The guy in the front is even left handed. Does that constitute additional "diversity"?!?!

    By the way, it doesn’t matter if these idiots are “trained differently.” If law firms, non-profits, and government agencies don’t want to hire your unaccredited JD ass, then you will end up in a garbage position. Good luck trying to repay your student loans, working at Allstate Insurance or for Wal-Mart, Bitch. What the hell goes through the tiny mind of a peon who thinks “I’ll go to a brand new, unaccredited trash pit, and become a lawyer”?!?!

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  22. Damn. One-fifth of the class was on academic probation?

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  23. As a 3L student at UNTDCOL, I entered this law school knowing full well that accreditation may not be achieved by the time I graduate. I am one of many at this school who feel the ABA's decision is hypocrisy at best. For years the ABA has ranted and raved that law school was too expensive and too inclusive. Lo and behold UNTDCOL does something to address both of these issues and the ABA says, you "might" have students who are unsuccessful on the bar exam because of the low LSAT scores of the admitted students. Personally, for me, I chose to attend UNTDCOL over acceptance at several other law schools in Texas because UNTDCOL allowed me to keep my full-time career, be an active and involved parent in my children's lives, and have zero debt for law school. As a veteran, I pay nothing to attend UNTDCOL (outside of books) thanks to the Hazlewood Act that allows Texas veterans 150 hours of tuition and fee free higher education at any State based school. Personally, I currently have about a 2.8 GPA and have zero doubt I will pass the bar exam first time if allowed to sit. I am exactly the type of student UNTDCOL was trying to recruit. As a non-traditional student my plans after graduation are to go into private practice in my hometown where there is a huge need for attorneys, particularly for underserved latino population. Exiting law school with no debt I am in a much better position to serve the underserved in my community.

    ReplyDelete
  24. As a 3L student at UNTDCOL, I entered this law school knowing full well that accreditation may not be achieved by the time I graduate. I am one of many at this school who feel the ABA's decision is hypocrisy at best. For years the ABA has ranted and raved that law school was too expensive and too inclusive. Lo and behold UNTDCOL does something to address both of these issues and the ABA says, you "might" have students who are unsuccessful on the bar exam because of the low LSAT scores of the admitted students. Personally, for me, I chose to attend UNTDCOL over acceptance at several other law schools in Texas because UNTDCOL allowed me to keep my full-time career, be an active and involved parent in my children's lives, and have zero debt for law school. As a veteran, I pay nothing to attend UNTDCOL (outside of books) thanks to the Hazlewood Act that allows Texas veterans 150 hours of tuition and fee free higher education at any State based school. Personally, I currently have about a 2.8 GPA and have zero doubt I will pass the bar exam first time if allowed to sit. I am exactly the type of student UNTDCOL was trying to recruit. As a non-traditional student my plans after graduation are to go into private practice in my hometown where there is a huge need for attorneys, particularly for underserved latino population. Exiting law school with no debt I am in a much better position to serve the underserved in my community.

    ReplyDelete
  25. As a 3L student at UNTDCOL, I entered this law school knowing full well that accreditation may not be achieved by the time I graduate. I am one of many at this school who feel the ABA's decision is hypocrisy at best. For years the ABA has ranted and raved that law school was too expensive and too inclusive. Lo and behold UNTDCOL does something to address both of these issues and the ABA says, you "might" have students who are unsuccessful on the bar exam because of the low LSAT scores of the admitted students. Personally, for me, I chose to attend UNTDCOL over acceptance at several other law schools in Texas because UNTDCOL allowed me to keep my full-time career, be an active and involved parent in my children's lives, and have zero debt for law school. As a veteran, I pay nothing to attend UNTDCOL (outside of books) thanks to the Hazlewood Act that allows Texas veterans 150 hours of tuition and fee free higher education at any State based school. Personally, I currently have about a 2.8 GPA and have zero doubt I will pass the bar exam first time if allowed to sit. I am exactly the type of student UNTDCOL was trying to recruit. As a non-traditional student my plans after graduation are to go into private practice in my hometown where there is a huge need for attorneys, particularly for underserved latino population. Exiting law school with no debt I am in a much better position to serve the underserved in my community.

    ReplyDelete

 
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