Sunday, August 21, 2016

Arizona Summit Law School Will Require Its Students to Pass Mock Bar Exam, Before They Can Graduate

For Profit Excrement: On August 17, 2016, the ABA Journal published a Debra Cassen Weiss piece that was entitled “Arizona Summit Law School seeks university affiliation, requires mock bar exam passage.” Check out this opening:

“Updated: The Arizona Summit Law School is taking a new step in a bid to bolster its reputation. 

The school plans to partner with a major university, Above the Law reports. 

Summit president Don Lively says in a press release that the school is “negotiating with a few universities that share our mission and values.” Among other things, the affiliation will strengthen Summit’s reputation, make its program more affordable and reduce tuition dependence, according to Lively.

The school is also taking some steps to improve its first-time bar pass rate. Only 30.6 percent of first-time test takers from the law school passed the July 2015 bar exam, and only 38.1 percent of first-timers passed in February 2016. 

One of the steps, noted in the press release, is a program that targets students who are members of historically or economically disadvantaged groups. It offers full scholarships plus $5,000 in living expenses to students with an LSAT score of 150 or above. 

Above the Law reports on a second step being taken by the school. 

The blog obtained an email informing students that beginning in May 2017, they will have to pass a mock bar exam as a graduation requirement. The email signed by Dean Shirley Mays strongly encourages students to take the school’s bar preparation class and notes that it can be taken for credit.” [Emphasis mine] 

What the hell did you expect, bitches?!?! You admit people with garbage LSAT scores. Did you think that was going to translate into decent bar passage rates? Then again, all you pigs thought about was getting your hooves on those federal student loan dollars!

TTTT Email From the Dean: On August 17, 2016, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry that was labeled “Law School Notorious For Graduates Failing The Bar Exam Makes Passing Mock Bar Exam A Graduation Requirement.” Below is the conclusion of the email from Cockroach Shirley Mays:

“While we are confident that our graduates have the potential to succeed, it also is clear that all of us need to make adjustments in response to our graduates’ recent bar exam performance. In balancing your interest in keeping your fall schedule with the responsibility we have to make you bar ready before you graduate, we have reconsidered and removed the graduation requirement that December 2016 and May 2017 graduates take the pre-bar prep class. We want you to take ownership of your success and make your own informed decision based on what is best for you… 

I strongly encourage each of you to take the pre-bar prep class. It will help prepare you to take the bar exam. The pre-bar prep class will have as a final a mock bar exam which will contribute significantly to your grade. Taking the mock bar exam will afford you the opportunity to receive feedback about your strengths and areas of improvement going into the bar exam. It also will give you a taste of what you will experience two months after graduation as you prepare for the February or July 2017 bar exam… 

Please note, effective with the May 2017 graduates, even though taking the class is not a requirement, a passing score on a mock bar exam will be a graduation requirement. We will share these specifics in a subsequent email early next week.

Warm regards, 

Dean Mays” [Emphasis mine]

It’s nice to see that this wench has such confidence in her students’ abilities to pass the bar exam, huh?!?! Also, it always comes down to the lemmings “taking ownership” of their own success or failure.

Other Coverage: On August 20, 2016, OTLSS featured a dybbuk post titled “Arizona Sadist Law School To Increase its Bar Passage Rate by Preventing its Students from Graduating Until They Can Pass a Mock Bar Exam.” Enjoy the following excerpt:

“Beginning with the graduating (or, uh, possibly not graduating) class of 2017, students at ASLS will be required to pass a school-designed mock bar exam prior to receiving their JD. This is reminiscent, somewhat, of the so-called "baby bar" that California administers to students at unaccredited law schools. Of course, unlike at Sadist, the California baby bar is designed by the state's Committee of Bar Examiners, not by the individual schools, is initially administered at the end of the first year of legal study, and its passage rates are collected and reported. So students at these schools have clear expectations and early feedback. 

In response to an inquiry from the ABA Journal, Sadistic Dean Shirley Mays pricelessly griped that her school’s bar passage rate would be 42%, or even 46%, instead of 30%, but for the fact that its best students routinely transfer to other schools. For a sports analogy, imagine how delighted you would be as a diehard fan of a perennial last place team if the coach complained that the team might still be in last place,but by a lesser margin, if only its best players would stop accepting mid-season offers to play for better-performing rivals.” [Emphasis mine]

The commode is feigning concern for its graduates’ fate. As long as the check clears, that is all that matters. 

Conclusion: Do you see real law schools cooking up such nonsense?!?! Listen up, Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer students: Take ownership of your failure on the bar exam. But make sure to enroll here, and stay for the full three years. Despite your 143 LSAT score, we believe that you can achieve great things. Go out there and change the world! If you can’t get a law license, then you can certainly make a difference at State Farm or at Costco. Do your TTTT proud!


  1. And, notice how the ABA, being the adroit and cat-like regulating body that it is, is nowhere to be seen as Arizona Toilet kneecaps its scam victims yet again, for it's own benefit.

    Is there any doubt, at all, that this is a ploy to lower the denominator of the bar passage percentage calculation? Any other reason at all? The ABA has a Graduation requirement in its accreditation "requirements," how about enforcing it?

    1. Exactly. All this is is the school's documenting / paper trail that they are reacting to the issue so that the ABA doesn't pull accreditation and therefore the "Well of Sweet Fed. Loan Dollars" will remain fertile and shall not perish from the earth for Az. Summit.

      That's all it is..

      It has nothing to do with concern for the students' outcomes - these Lemmings are well and truly Doomed anyway..

      All its about is the money, of course, as always with these charlatans.

  2. This school is a big stinky piece of shit. Did the school include this requirement when they admitted students for the class of 2017? Seems like they just sprung this shit on the students.

  3. Even low LSAT takers deserve a chance to be a lawyer!

    Finding a job isnt that hard ! Network, get good grades.

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 22, 2016 at 1:54 PM

      I want to drive at Indy too! I am a pretty good driver. I've only been involved in a couple of crashes. I would like to be a doctor too. I know how to use band aids.

  4. I know Law Schools have different tuition price points from school to school....


    Is law school tuition really worth $40k - $50k a year for the education?

    Someone needs to come up with a cheaper alternative than:

    - Reading for the Bar
    - Two year law School

    Team AAMPLE... any input on this topic?

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 22, 2016 at 1:57 PM

      Law School is worth the price if you want a great education that teaches the nuts and bolts of our institutions and who the our country works. It is not a good ROI if one wants a sustainable middle class income as a solo or small firm lawyer. In Illinois, there a 98,000 lawyers and expanding. Where are there even 500 jobs?

  5. And so, you do not pass the "mock bar exam."

    Then what?

    Ful tuition refund?

    Complimentary minimum wage job serving cocktails at law school faculty functions? (For a month, with a recommendation to a local taxi service?)

    Have your epaulettes striped off your shoulders and your pen snapped in half before the assembled law school faculty and students like Nick Adams, star of "The Rebel?"

    About 1,200 folks should enroll in law school each year, and the rest should seek gainful employment.


  6. What is the IQ of the typical person who applies to Arizona Summit? 85?

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 24, 2016 at 11:34 AM

      Wow, that's low. 69 is borderline intellectual functioning and will make one eligible for Medicaid and SSi Disability. They are that low at Arizona Summit? Wow.

  7. Hey-don't forget Chuck Conners in "Branded"...
    And good point-so you're a 3L and you flunk their test-do they refund your money?
    What a shameless scam.

    1. I forgot about Chuck Connors and Branded.

      I met Chuck Connors once. My dad ran the local Cerebral Palsy Telethon back in the early 1960's. The telethon management wanted a TV Western star to be the talent.

      Their first choice wanted a $10,000 fee for Friday, Saturday and Sunday broadcasts with limited hours.

      Serious money in 1960. Too much.

      Another star would do it for $7,500. The star was hired, his contract specifying his rather limited appearances.

      He came straight from the airport to the telethon Friday, and performed for hours-late into the night.

      On Saturday, he showed up early, worked virtually the entire day, again late into the night-like midnight plus. (It was a 24 hour telethon.)

      He auctioned off his hat, his leather vest, his cowboy gun (toy replicas). He worked the crowd with tremendous energy for hours and hours. He greeted folks crossing the stage who had walked the neighborhoods collecting coins for research. That is when I met him. He GAVE me a toy replica of his cowboy gun. I was backstage for many hours each day watching from the wings. So I know.

      Sunday, again, he worked the entire day, again far beyond the hours he was required to work by contract.

      When they handed him his check, he endorsed it back to the Telethon.

      THAT is what this country is about.

      And that man was Chuck Connors.

    2. Thanks, Nando, for posting my post.

      Nobody has heard this story. It is worth telling.


  8. 21% of the class of 2015 was unemployed 10 months after graduation (when you add up unemployed not seeking, unemployed seeking, and employment status unknown). 12 graduates (about 4% of the graduating class) were working in non-professional positions, most likely as a Starbucks barista or associate at Walmart. 33 graduates (about 10% of the graduating class) were working in “professional positions.” They probably begged for their old jobs back. About 40% of the graduating class obtained full time, long term, bar passage required employment. Over half of those graduates went solo or were working for firms of 2-10 attorneys.

    These are disastrous results. When these lemmings go on IBR or REPAYE and ask for their loans to be forgiven in 25 years, the taxpayers will ultimately come out on the losing end of this scam.

    And as for the bar exam, it’s funny to see Dean Mays resort to corporate speak like “we want you to take ownership of your success” rather than improving the curriculum. Putting aside the fact that these people are con artists and their graduates have poor job prospects, I’ve never understood why these “educators” don’t take steps to actually teach their students. They could dump the socratic method and the case method for teaching law. These worthless methods are justified because students need to learn “critical thinking” skills and how to “think like a lawyer.” But in science, medicine, and just about every other profession, you need to “think critically.” Students in these professions do just fine attending lectures and taking objective multiple choice tests that test their understanding of the material. In fact, medical schools structure their exams to have similar multiple choice formats to professional exams. Also, most science and medical students do not even buy textbooks anymore. This saves them hundreds of dollars a year. Students now prepare by reading the professor’s lecture notes and turning to online textbooks that are available for free through the school library.

    So Arizona SummiTTTTT could take the lead. They could teach all courses in a lecture format. They could give several tests throughout the semester rather than one final exam. And the exams could be objective multiple choice exams with essay questions, that help prepare students to take the bar exam. They could also help their students save money by telling them to go on Westlaw for case reading assignments. But rather than overhauling their curriculum, Dean Mays would rather go on with business as usual, and now require her victims to pass a mock bar exam. These people really are lazy and worthless. Exams like the bar exam are not IQ tests. The bar exam does not measure intelligence. You can train people to pass the bar exam with enough practice. But that would require the lazy ass holes to actually work.

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM

      Solo for a newbie is functionally UNEMPLOYED. Who the hell wants to start with no experience and no job in a complex profession?

  9. It would be somewhat defensible if they followed the CA baby bar in administering an exam after the 1L year. To allow their 138 LSAT dolts to pay for 3 years and then force them to pass this psuedo bar in order to graduate is shocking.

  10. Question:

    If I have over $150,000 in student loan debt, and graduate law school making $60,000 a year, does this make me the "New Poor Class", as I try to dig my way out of the student loan debt ?

    Hey, at least I am an attorney !! And this still means something !!!!

    1. With 1.3 million licensed lawyers(per the ABA, 2015) in the US, just being an attorney means virtually nothing-and for grads of TTTTs like this(see post listed its employment stats), being a lawyer means having a lot of debt and no job.

    2. That's a key point. These Lemmings have their heads in the clouds. So many people are just empty shells living their lives based on some perception of self-image / importance but the hard financial reality is that the recent JD graduate Lemmings today have, in most cases, a net worth less than zero and will for their entire lives because of the mid-6 figure debt levels.

      Re: The no-longer funny Seton Hall schtick:

      Please cut it. It's not funny.

      You're going to come out of there today 210K in the hole+ and this is excluding any undergrad debt.

      Seton Hall is now at spot # 65

      It's therefore a nothing school like all the rest below the T14 and the top half of the T14 (T6) is far more important than the other half, etc.

      It's also in a shithole (Newark) of a shithole state (NJ).

      End of Story.

    3. It's pretty much as 3:31 AM says. Below the top, maybe, 20 schools or so, the ranking really d9oesn't matter anymore. If the school is at #65 or at #57, it's just not going to matter all that much.

      You're at risk nowadays fooling around outside the T14, excluding those with valuable contacts and connections, and maybe the top ten percent of the class. All others beware. This is not news.


    Back on October 20, 2015, Staci Zaretsky tore into this certified cesspool in an ATL article that was entitled "Despite All Efforts, Law School Posts Worst Bar Exam Performance Ever." Enjoy this epic opening:

    "This summer, we regaled our readers with the tale of one for-profit law school’s plan to keep low-performing students from taking the bar exam immediately following graduation. The law school’s program is called Unlock Potential, and it “extends the bar preparation from the usual 10-week program to more of a four-month program.” To make those additional months of bar prep seem more palatable, the law school offered stipends of $5,000 to all participants. Several of those who opted not to unlock their potential received phone calls from the law school’s dean on the day before the test — not to wish them luck, but to plead with them to take a bar deferral stipend of $10,000 and not sit for the exam the next day.

    The institution in question is Arizona Summit Law School (formerly known as the Phoenix School of Law), and now that the exam results from the Arizona bar are out, it’s time celebrate its graduates’ successes thanks to the school’s innovative preparation techniques.

    Here are some of the gushing emails we received from Arizona Summit Law graduates:

    * Infilaw school ASLS managed to post a 30.6% first-time bar pass rate for the July 2015 exam.

    * ASL managed to drag the overall pass rate down to 56% for the state. [T]hat school is doing everything possible to devalue its diploma.

    * Their accreditation should end today.

    * [N]ote the AZ Summit pass rate of 30%. That’s after they paid those people to not take the bar exam.

    Yikes! Apparently the July administration of the exam didn’t go over as well as one would have thought."

    You will note that this putrid performance came after the trash pit known as Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer paid - at the last minute - several of its TTTT grads to NOT take the goddamn bar exam. Yes, what a prestigious dung heap, huh?!?!

  12. Guys you are all missing the point. Go to law school, just end up on the good side of employment statistics.

    Example, if you go to Seton Hall Law School you have a higher chance of landing employment. Study hard, network and you will land on the good side of the statistical numbers.

    School ranking has little to do with landing a job. In this economy its who you know, that is either willing to teach you the ropes, or can help get you a job.

    So Seton Hall is among the top 100 law schools, is no different than going to any school below Harvard, or Yale.

    Statistically you have the same odds of landing a job. Good luck, and always remember, there a vast amount of opportunities outside of OCI !!!

    And the student debt you took on to pursue your legal education is just a long term investment. Think about the long game.

    And do not fall for the hype that some law schools are better than others.... torts will always be torts, going to Harvard, or Cooley. While using the same text books..... go figure.

    1. This is beyond inane-why you're pushing SH makes no sense. Per the school's own numbers, it's $75,000/year to attend(and this number is probably on the low side). And its employment stats are stacked-take a close look at the 100(!) students in "Clerkships-State and Local." One of the folks from NJ will be able to give all the details, but these are pure political appointments and have nothing to do with any sort of academic standards.
      So if you're politically connected, SH may make sense; if not, stay home.
      And SH shill-stop posting here; instead put your ads on the side of a bus, like other class organizations would.

    2. Or, assuming you i) have a clean criminal record, ii) aren't morbidly obese, iii) do ok on standardized tests (over 150 on LSAT in the context I am describing), and iv) have sixty college credits (C-B average), you could become a cop and retire before you are fifty. NYC sanitation, fire, and court officer will do to. I know over 50k people take the tests, but the majority don't meet the above description, and the majority of the remaining minority do not prepare for the tests.

      I was at a BBQ last weekend and I met an NYC cop and NYC teacher (married couple, mid-thirties). I overheard them complaining that they are pissed that they have to pay the AMT tax (which means they have a combined gross income of over 250k). The cop fit the elements I described above and was grossing well over 150k with overtime . He also will collect about 5k net a month as a pension when he hits 44 (health care for life too).

      But hey, you are probably right, it makes sense to become a lawyer and go to Seton Hall for 200k of non-dischargeable debt. Can you remind me what percentage of lawyers, who are employed, make that kind of coin?

      P.S. It goes without saying, but the cop doesn't have any student loans.

    3. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 24, 2016 at 11:30 AM

      There is a HUGE difference between Seton Hall and Cooley. Would you rather drive a Buick/Honda/VW or a Mitsubishi Mirage? Folks know why one buys a Mirage, Yugo, or an Aveo. Had to have a new car. Couldn't afford anything better. Same thing with law schools. Everybody know what Cooley Valpo Arizona Summit High School is about. Couldn't get into the Seton Halls, Loyola, DePaul, U Of I, etc.

    4. 9:43 AM.

      No offense to you but that cop / teacher combo pisses me right the eff off..

      2 people leeching off the public teat - AND they have the audacity to complain about paying "too much" of it back in taxes.. Well, that's typical of 2 people that really do very little and get well-paid for it..

      Not knocking you in any way. You are absolutely right in what you wrote.

      Yeah, sure..

      OR become a broke-ass lawyer, starting off $250-350K in the hole and trying to convince yourself you have some kind of life..

      And then, after 25 years on IBR/PAYE, the Tax Bomb blows up in your face when you retire, at a time you are likely least able to afford that as well.

      So, you'll have a negative net worth OR close to zero for your entire lifetime.

      Sounds good, right??

    5. "Example, if you go to Seton Hall Law School you have a higher chance of landing employment. Study hard, network and you will land on the good side of the statistical numbers."

      And therein lies the problem.

      Just what do you think everybody else in class is doing, 9:48 PM?

      FACT: Only ten percent of the class will wind up in the top ten percent, NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY STUDY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY NETWORK.

    6. @5:54,

      No offense taken, except I disagree about getting mad at the teachers and cops. They are smarter than the idiots still chasing the baby boomer private sector dream. Thirty years ago, it made sense to be a private sector employee; now, public sector is the way to go.

      The only thing that pisses me off is the misinformation. Whenever you hear about a cop's salary, it's usually the starting salary, i.e. 21 year old police cadet making 24k, and whenever you hear about lawyers or other white collar professionals, you only hear about the outliers, i.e. Big law partners or CEOs making millions. If you compare apples to apples, public sector almost always wins, even at the top. What do you think retire four star chiefs who do security work make? Hint: it's closer to the big law partner's salary, not some shit law associate. Both outcomes are unlikely, but if you pursue the chief route, you'll still end up middle class (worst case scenario).

    7. @5:54,

      And how much did YOU pay in taxes last year?

  13. Classes started yesterday. Seems the 1Ls get dumber every year.

  14. Nando forgot to mention....... if your a hot / beautiful lady and law student (no matter tier 1 or 4) you might increase the odds of having someone help you finding a job (for obvious different reasons...wink wink...) hence pushing you to the good side of employment stats......

    True Story: My 1L year we had this blond chick, that everybody called boobs... Blond, unintelligent, always late to class, and you wonder, how the hell did she get in the door??

    when she arrived to the lecture hall late, with the fake big boobs we were all like ....well, what we call in the business.... a show stopper :)

    a lot of laughs....... love law school... oh, and get used to the double standards..... a lot of pot heads are in law school..... oddly enough.

    1. I met a girl like that attending a fourth tier legal shit hole, except this one was flat chested. She spent whatever was left of her student loans after paying for her ridiculously over priced tuition buying cheap wine, gourmet cat food and Taylor Swift concert tickets. If she had saved half of all that money over the three year period she could at least gotten a pair of fake boobs. A much better investment considering she's probably going to have to pull tricks on the side to pay for her student loans.

    2. "a lot of laughs....... love law school..."

      I hope you got your 200K worth of laughs.


    On August 19, 2016, the Phoenix Business Journal published a story from senior reporter Mike Sunnucks, under the headline “Arizona law school looks for larger university affiliation.” Check out the following portion:

    “The Arizona Summit Law School in downtown Phoenix wants to affiliate itself with a larger university.

    The for-profit school is part of the Naples, Florida-based InfiLaw System, which also owns law schools in Florida and North Carolina.

    Arizona Summit was previously named the Phoenix School of Law.

    Summit President Don Lively hopes to be part of a larger university system within 12 months.

    “We conducted a survey of our students and learned that 67 percent of them would prefer attending a law school that is part of a university system,” Lively said. “Toward this end, we are in advanced negotiations with a few universities that share our mission and values.”

    Lively said teaming with a larger school can potentially lead to lower tuition costs for students and help the school’s reputation.

    ASL opened in 2005.

    In June, Arizona Summit announced a partnership with Bethune-Cookman University in Florida to offer $12.5 million worth of scholarships. BCU is a historically black college in Daytona Beach.

    “Our mission entails admitting many students from disadvantaged backgrounds who have lower entering credentials but the potential to succeed,” Arizona Summit Dean Shirley Mays.”

    You can tell that the law school pigs are greedy, out of touch, and perhaps mentally ill. Your true mission – and that of every ABA-accredited “institution of higher learning” – is to get as many asses into seats as possible, without regard to the prevailing job market for lawyers, in order to get more federal student loan dollars.

    The fact that Shirley Mays is a black woman who wants to take advantage of young black men and women – by enrolling them in a for-protit, FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT – is even more disgusting. How in the hell is a school with a 30% bar passage rate going to help these students and graduates succeed in life?!?! Having a big-ass law degree that isn’t worth the paper it is printed on does not pay the bills. And if you cannot make a decent living with your TTTT educaTTTTion, then not even your friends or family will be impressed by your supposed “academic credentials.” Then again, even if they were, who cares? Such people are simpletons, and this does not put food in your fridge or put a roof over your head.


    On August 16, 2016, ATL’s Staci Zaretsky posted an entry labeled “Failing, For-Profit Law School Announces Plans To Affiliate With 'Major University.'” Enjoy this segment:

    “What do you do when your standalone, for-profit law school has garnered nothing but bad press and terrible outcomes for students? What if only 39.8 percent of one of your most recent graduating classes was employed in full-time, long-term jobs as lawyers? What if the most recentmedian debt reported for graduates of your program was a back-breaking $178,263? What if, despite your dean allegedly begging certain graduates not to take the bar exam, one of your most recent graduating classes performed so poorly on the bar exam — with 69.4 percent of takers failing the test — that the total pass rate for an entire state was dragged down to just 56.5 percent?

    Much like the Thomas M. Cooley Law School attempted to do when it announced an affiliation with Western Michigan University, you’d do anything you possibly could to change the law school’s name like it was heading into the witness protection program.

    Which school is trying to affiliate itself with a university to “enhance [its] reputation” this time? That would be Arizona Summit Law School, a member of the InfiLaw system.

    Yesterday afternoon, the school announced to its students and alumni via email that it intended to affiliate with a “major university” in one year’s time. At the time of publication, Above the Law is the first media outlet to report this news. What we’d like to know is what kind of a university would want to team up with a flagging, for-profit law school? Right now, the school is apparently negotiating with several possible takers. No self-respecting university would want to get into cahoots with a for-profit institution, so perhaps we can look forward to the Grand Canyon University Arizona Summit Law School or DeVry University Arizona Summit Law School in the future…

    Dean Shirley Mays notes that, “our mission entails admitting many students from disadvantaged backgrounds who have lower entering credentials but the potential to succeed. Our ability to and record of enabling success is evidenced by an ultimate bar pass rate that complies with ABA standards, our strong career placement rate, and many stories from employers who prefer to hire our graduates because of their preparedness for practice and strong work ethic.”

    Congratulations on having a “strong” career placement rate that “ranks favorably” among other law schools whose graduates have great difficulty finding jobs. Congratulations on having graduates with a miraculous ability to avoid loan default despite their joblessness (income-based repayment programs sure are great). Congratulations on having an “ultimate bar pass rate” of 86 percent, which certainly looks more palatable than your recent 30.6 percent bar pass rate.”
    With all of these remarkable achievements, we hope that a “major university” will rescueaffiliate with Arizona Summit Law School soon. Best of luck!”

    What more can be said of this festering stench pit? If this is the best school that you can get into, and being a lawyer is your dream, then you need to reconsider things. Hell, you are much better off keeping your job as assistant manager of McDonald’s, lemming.

  17. Nando, checkout this story about New York Bar association's opinion to allow law firms to bill for work performed by unpaid legal interns:

    With mandatory pro bono and legitimization of labor exploitation in the legal sector, it's a great time to enroll in law school.


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