Saturday, August 27, 2016

Fourth Tier Dung Pit Ave Maria School of Law Gets a Slap on the Wrist From ABA Cockroaches

ABA Pretends to Crack the Whip: On August 11, 2016, the Ave Herald published a Joe Patrice article that was entitled “American Bar Association Finds Ave Maria’s Admissions Practices Lacking.” Look at this opening:

“The committee of the American Bar Association that accredits law schools has told the Ave Maria School of Law it is not in compliance with accreditation standards relating to admissions policies and practices. The ABA has given the law school a specific list of remedial actions it needs to take, and will review the situation in a few months. 

The directive came following a review of the law school's operations which included a scheduled ABA site visit that occurs every seven years for all fully accredited law schools in the U.S. Ave Maria Law remains fully accredited by the ABA.

The standards the law school was found to be out of compliance with require the school to have "sound admissions policies and practices" and admit only applicants who "appear capable of satisfactorily completing its program of legal education and being admitted to the bar."

The ABA's accreditation practices themselves have been criticized recently by the U.S. organization that supervises all higher education accrediting agencies, the National Advisory Committee on Institutional Quality and Integrity (NACIQI). The NACIQI recommended in June that the U.S. Department of Education suspend the ABA's ability to accredit new members for one year, finding fault with the ABA's implementation of student achievement standards among other matters. 

Joe Patrice, an editor at the widely-read legal news site Above the Law, told The Ave Herald that many in the legal community have been upset with the ABA for years for its apparent unwillingness to take serious action against underperforming law schools, and the action against the Ave Maria School of Law might foreshadow a crackdown on admission policies at other schools with low bar passage rates. "Ave Maria has stumbled into the ABA crosshairs at a really awkward moment," he said. "The organization has been, in the minds of many of us, terrifyingly lax on admission standards but now they're on notice from the Department of Education that they might lose their prestigious accrediting status if they don't start showing some backbone." 

The ABA directed Ave Maria Law to develop a plan to bring it into compliance and submit it by Sept. 1, and said a "fact finder" will be appointed to visit the school by Oct. 1 to review the admissions policies and practices.

"The finding of noncompliance with the standard on admissions is a disappointment but not a cause for alarm," the school's president, Kevin Cieply, said in an email statement to school staff and alumni.” [Emphasis mine]

Of course, Pig Kevin Cieply is going to act as if this is no big deal. He does not want to alarm waterheads who are enrolled in – or considering – this private toilet. Then again, when is the last time that the ABA actually did anything more than a slap on the wrist?

Other Coverage: On August 12, 2016 at 10:12 am, JDU contributor “ichininosan” started a thread that was labeled “ABA slap on the wrist for Ave Maria Law School.” Enjoy the following comments from him, the second of which was posted the same day, at 10:25 am.

“Like a few dozen other law schools, Ave Maria admits students with credentials that ensure they won't pass the bar exam, much less ever practice law. This has been true for at least a decade. The ABA has finally decided to take notice that this also happens to violate its standards:

Here is the hard right cross, following that stiff jab:

“A few facts about Ave Maria:

Annual Tuition: $41,706
Average indebtedness at graduation: $134,071 
LSAT 25%: 142 (equivalent to 18th percentile of all test-takers)
Grads employed in lawyer jobs 10 months out: 31/88 (35%)
Grads employed in big firms 10 months out: 2 
Grads in federal clerkships: 0 
Bar pass rate (FL) first-time takers: 54% (state avg: 72%)” [Emphasis mine]

Do you still want to attend this festering stink pit, Lemming?!?! Perhaps, you also like to stick forks in electric sockets.

Ranking: As you can see, Ave Maria Sewer of Law is rated as a FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT by US “News” & World Report. If you have a functioning brain stem, then you will recognize that such a school provides its students and graduates with putrid job prospects.

Conclusion: The American Bar Association cockroaches are merely trying to show the Department of Education dolts that they take their “responsibilities” seriously. After all, they do not want to risk losing self governance, however minimal the odds. This cartel has a track record of allowing steaming piles of excrement to exploit students and rob taxpayers. Occasionally, the bastards deny full accreditation to a new commode – but then one year later bestow that status. They may place a toilet – such as WhiTTTTier Law Sewer – on probation briefly, before restoring it to its prior state. Schools with atrocious bar passage rates may get a sharply-worded letter, but nothing substantive happens. This shell game is a sight to behold.


  1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 27, 2016 at 7:09 AM

    Of course folks will attend this Marshall Cooley Arizona Summit High School. Just like folks purchase Mitsubishi Mirages, Aveos and Yugos. They want a new car and that's what they can afford. Everybody knows those are shit boxes. Same thing with lawyers, judges and employers. We all know the reputation of these schools.

  2. Here's a thought:

  3. Fetid-that's the only appropriate word, for both this school and the ABA.
    And really, this shows that the ABA has no interest in protecting anyone or anything other than the TTTTs. They clearly don't care about the students, and don't care about the profession-if they did, this school would be shut down now.
    No, the ABA will do exactly as Nando predicts-at worst put the school on probation(which will be lifted after a year), but more likely do nothing, other than really really wring its hands.
    The ABA is worthless in terms of controlling terrible schools such as this. The numbers don't lie: the admittees shouldn't be in law school, and the terrible bar results and job results prove that.
    This school ought to be closed-but the ABA won't do it. It's been a decade, more or less, since the scam has been publicized by Nando and others. In that time, no schools have closed(two did merge); we've had several (losing) lawsuits, several ABA studies, many mainstream newspaper articles.
    The result? Well, applications have fallen off, but apply the lemmings still do. And if I'm not mistaken, even in this disastrous period for law students and lawyers, instead of law schools closing, several have opened(IT and UNT-and aren't there discussions about using tax money in Washington state and Alaska to open others?).
    What's going on defies the market: schools should be closing. But that would require two things-the ABA would have to act(it hasn't and never will) and/or the feds would need to cut off the $$$ spigot.
    Believe it or not, getting the feds to act is actually more possible. But without concerted political action, it won't happen.
    So the scam continues, and will continue.

  4. You talk about shitty passage rates.

  5. Hey guys. I dropped out of law school on Friday. My heart just wasn't into it. And the debt was making my head spin. Associate dean tried to talk me out of it. The thing is I feel like an idiot because I'll be heading back to my old job in about a week.

    1. Don't feel like an idiot. Feel like a winner, feel like one who made the right decision, because that's what you are. And believe me, within a year or two, you will feel awesome.

    2. You made a solid decision. Keep your head up, and tell the hateful bastards you lost your scholarship by 2 class ranks so you said "Fuck It!"

    3. When I was in law school twenty plus years ago, a classmate would spend a great deal of his "free time" with his girlfriend and working on his classic car. He was a gentleman. He ultimately flunked out. With my now still crushing student law school loan debt (200 K and sky rocketing) and my 29K Schedule C as a Solo, I envy my former classmate. He got the better end of the deal...the last laugh... Being an attorney is no longer a ticket to a sustainable middle class lifestyle. I see construction and handy men contractors with brand new Silvereados and Tacomas. I drive an 11 year old Toyota and other attorneys drive 99 Sables and 00s LaSabres...not by choice!!!

    4. Since your heart wasn't into it, you did the right thing. The idiots are the many who know that they should leave but don't.

    5. Thanks guys. My boss said I have a job to go back to. It's just facing my coworkers that's gonna suck. But I figure making $70k at something I enjoy and am good at beats law school.

    6. Unless you were on full scholarship at a T-14 school, you probably made the best decision of your life.

    7. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingAugust 29, 2016 at 2:40 PM

      Tell you co workers to give us a call. We will set them straight. On second thought, don't. Because I will ask if your company is hiring and I might do your job for 35K and health insurance. That would look real good now....

    8. If there are any haters at your old job, 8:07, ignore them. As other posters said, you will feel great over time not having law school hanging over your head. The people who hate are the ones who never take risks themselves, or are willing to admit a mistake and make a change.

      Soldier on, and good luck.

  6. I wish you'd change the yellow font. Doesn't show up on my mobile devices.

  7. Hi Anonymous 8:07 pm

    1) You have a job to return to, that's better then hitting the unemployment line.

    2) You realized it wasn't a good fit while you still had time to change things.

  8. This dump has an astronomical average indebtedness at graduation of $134k, a disastrous bar passage rate of 54%, and a pathetic 35% placement rate into lawyer jobs. Nevertheless, the ABA determined the school merely needs to take some remedial actions regarding their admission policies. In the end, the ABA will rubberstamp whatever corporate speak this dump comes up with. This dump will claim there is a critical shortage of minority lawyers, shortage of local lawyers, impending shortage, and/or lack of lawyers for indigent people. Then the ABA will say your remedial actions are approved and then drive on. The ABA does not give one damn about the students and graduates of this dump.

    Compare the ABA to a real organization, like the AMA. Over the past several years, physicians were always threatened with cuts to Medicare reimbursements under a law from the 1990s. Physicians threatened to stop taking Medicare patients if they were not adequately paid. So every year, Congress passed temporary spending measures to make sure physicians got paid. But Congress never passed a permanent change to the reimbursement law, which always worried physicians. If the AMA was a corrupt, degenerate organization like the ABA, the AMA would have said, “we have a shortage of doctors/diversity problem! Open more medical schools, lower our standards, and flood the market with graduates to treat Medicare patients.”

    But the AMA is not run by hard core scum. Last year in a bipartisan effort, Congress passed the Medicare “doc fix.” Congress permanently overhauled the 1990s reimbursement law. So the AMA convinced both political parties to work together in order to pass a new law to make sure doctors got paid. Not only that, but the AMA also successfully lobbied for the passage of the Affordable Care Act. I am not trying to take a position for or against the ACA. The ACA has a lot of problems. I am merely pointing out, that the AMA attempted to get more patients insured, so that physicians could get paid. That is what a professional organization is supposed to do.

    Compare healthcare to law. There is no constitutional right to health care. But all persons have a 6th Amendment right to counsel in criminal cases. Instead of lending federal money to law students who will never get legal jobs and who will never repay the full amount borrowed, the ABA could lobby for federal funding to public defenders across the nation. Ensuring that public defenders have adequate funding to guarantee the 6th Amendment right to counsel should be one of the most important missions of the ABA! The ABA could even lobby for federal grants to public aid organizations that will put unemployed lawyers to work. The fundamental problem in the legal market today is not a shortage of lawyers, like the law school pigs claim. The problem is the shrinking demand for legal services, the inability of many clients to pay for an attorney, and shrinking state budgets, particularly when it comes to funding public defenders.

    But the ABA does not give one damn about law students, lawyers, clients, and the profession. The ABA is busy advocating for abortion rights and gun control (I’m not taking a position on those issues, just questioning why the ABA ventures into social issues when we have a shrinking legal market and unemployed lawyers working retail), proclaiming that the inability of clients to pay for attorneys means we have a lawyer shortage, accrediting garbage new law schools, failing to enforce law school bar passage standards, and looking out for the interests of overpaid academic swine who have seized control of the organization. The ABAs actions are directly harming this country. We have legions of law grads who are heavily indebted and will never practice law. And we have underfunded public defender offices across the nation. The fact that the ABA is indifferent to these consequences shows that they are hard core scum.

    1. You are right on! I am a public defender. We are poorly paid and overwhelmed with work. Some cases are basically pro bono for the time I put in.

    2. Whatever you have is one hell of a lot better than what my attorney buddies have. One guy is UNEMPLOYED after 30 years of practice, one works at Target for "gas" money and I just had a 29K Schedule C for 2015. We would KILL for your job...It is that bad out there. Look at all of the dilapidated suburban law offices...ask any PRIVATE what they go to appear in court.

    3. The PDs are underpaid-but they get dozens and dozens of applications for each opening. Starting salary is $50,000/year, and they could fill each vacancy multiple times over, with many experienced attorneys applying for entry level jobs. That's how bad the legal market is.

    4. Holy $*!%, that is a stone-cold indictment of the ABA, 10:19. Keep it up!


    On August 12, 2016, Paul Caron covered this stench pit in an entry labeled “Ave Maria's Admissions Policies Violate ABA Standards, Law School Required To Take Immediate Remedial Action.” Scroll down to the Comments section, for the following gems. First, an August 12, 2016 7:27:23 am response from user Eric Rasmusen:

    “Some years ago wasn't there a lot of evidence that medium-ranked law schools were admitting black applicants whom they knew wouldn't pass the bar, based on past experience at that law school? Is that different because the black applicants did have high enough LSATs that they would have been able to pass the bar if they'd gone to a different law school? If so, that's perverse.”

    Now, read these remarks from “Unemployed Northeastern” - from August 12, 2016 at 8:21:22 am:

    “Welcome but curious (and not just for the timing; this meeting appears to have taken place just a few weeks before NACIQI took the ABA behind the woodshed for, inter alia, its failure to warn, sanction, or deaccredit any law school in the last five years over terrible debt, bar passage, job placement, misleading stats, etc.). But my reading of the national comparison charts at Law School Transparency reveals 11 law schools with a lower 25th percentile LSAT scores (14 if one includes the PR law schools); a list that includes all three Infilaw schools and Cooley. 27 law schools (inc. PR schools) have lower median LSAT scores, including at least three other Florida law schools. 19 law schools have lower median GPA scores, including at least two other Florida law schools. And while Ave Maria's FL bar passage rate was the lowest for FL law schools last July, it was only a few percentile points lower than Barry, St. Thomas, and Florida Coastal.”

    Commenter “Art Deco” provided this quick jab, on August 13, 2016 11:10:10 AM:

    “The ABA is a racket.”

    Again, this acTTTTion from the ABA is mere smoke and mirrors. The cockroaches need to show that they can police the law schools. Sadly, the Department of Education dunces will see this as “proof” that the rodents are serious about their accreditation “standards.” Plus, does anyone believe that the feds would perform any better than the racketeer influenced and corrupt organization known as the American Bar Association?!?! They have neither the manpower nor the inclination to take over this filth.

  10. Low lsat takers deserve to attend law school. and graduate and take the bar, even if it takes them more than one try*** The Key is not to give up! Make your dreams become reality.

    The one caution is only that tuition at law schools nation wide have increased to the point that makes the ROI a bad bet for some lawyers. So state schools with low in-state tuition is your best bet.

    There is still room to practice law, if you adjust your financial expectations and you can still have a decent career. Just know that it is no longer the guaranteed ticket to the high life.

    These people do not realize, you get out of life, exactly what you put into life. You get out of law school and a career as a lawyer, what you put into it.

    Do not forget.... The same people that are struggling to make it as a lawyer would MOST likely struggle in any profession that they chose in undergrad. Bottom feeders, that fell for the TV hype.

    When the shi* hits the fan, and things get real, and your back in against the wall, you would be surprised how you can transform, and elevate your game in order to monetize that JD.

    Hint: if the old model/system doesn't work, create your own system...etc.. think multiple revenue streams.

    There are plenty of AAMPLE grads to attest to this. Being a lawyer is a calling. And you can also work for yourself. Some lazy guy mentioned above that he had a schedule C with only 29k...... He is NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!!

    Stop trying to scare people and their dreams of being a lawyer! Work hard, and reinvent yourself! You only have one life to live !

    1. Anyone who advises naive children to attend one of these third-tier trash pits, unless said child is properly connected, an attractive young lady, or at least capable of hitting the top five percent of their class, needs to rot in hell.

    2. 6:57p is absolutely correct; it would help for AAMPLE doofus to get off the couch and turn off the TV.

  11. Why do you people insist on taking the "Romance" out of practicing law and having a high intellectual legal career? JD = Doctor of Law (in latin) for all of you uninformed posters.

    This means means a JD education is on the same level and Doctor's, Dentist's, and PHD's. *** This legal education has to count for something!

    Ok, to be fair: Tuition has increased, salaries have been adjusted to the reality of the market and low lsat takers have been allowed in the door.

    This does not take away from our honorable profession! I propose a challenge: How about sharing some wins, or possible solutions that have worked for you as a practicing lawyer and post. This would help inspire others out there.

    The legal market, right now is not all bad news! Example, attend Seton Hall Law School and if you land on the good side of the graduation stats, you will have it made.

    Do not fall the hype of "its all doom and gloom" in the legal market, and things are tough so I want to point the finger and blame someone else. Where is the accountability??

    Is it tough out there - yes, Can you still make a decent living in law - yes, is it as easy as in the past - no. Take the hits and keep on going! If you fall down, get back up! If the market condition changes - change your strategy, until you accomplish the life balance you deserve as a practicing attorney!!! If being a lawyer was easy... then everyone would be one and this is not the case, even with the current climate. If you put your mind to it, you can figure out a way and accomplish anything in this life! Do not let the haters hold you back.

    I leave you with a final thought:

    A smooth sea, does not make a seasoned, sailor.

    1. If you can get into Seton Hall, aren't obese and have a clean criminal record, become a cop for NYS, NYC, Jersey, and try to shoot for the stars: Nassau County. You will retire before 50 and your pension will be more than what most lawyers earn as a salary. If you move up high enough in the NYPD or just get into Nassau, your salary will be on par with big law. That's right, big law (Nassau cops make between 200-250k with overtime). That is on top of the pension. If you get big law, you will need to have over three million dollars in a 401k equivalent retirement vehicle in order to match what the cop will get at 45. That means even if you get big law, you still lose, and if you don't get big law, you lose real big.

      If being a cop doesn't suit your fancy, try fire, sanitation, municipal trades; and if that doesn't work, try the private sector trades.

      In all instances, if you compare apples to apples, you will be better off than being a lawyer. It's unlikely you will become rich in the trades, but you will definitely be middle class. It is unlikely you will get rich in the law, but you will probably be poor as a lawyer. There are rich plumbers and there are rich lawyers. It's easier to get rich as the former Than it is as the latter, although its difficult as a general matter. The difference is that if you become a plumber, life isn't over if you aren't in the top of the game. For law, your life will suck: you will work long hours, for low pay, and with no security.

      Finally, if you are a brainwashed millenial, and you just can't believe the truth of what I am saying, i.e. Education isn't worth it unless you go to elite schools, and that is especially true for legal education, then get a STEM degree. The above options beat STEM as well, and STEM degrees are also over valued. However, although your life will probably suck if you go down that road (because of globalization), it's a cheaper option than law, and the odds are better than law.

    2. At 5:51 AM we see a fairly entertaining troll. I give you a solid and very respectable "B" on this effort. That last sentence with the misplaced commas was a little over the top.

    3. It is impressive how many cliches AAMPLE doofus can fit into a single post, but the entertainment value of his inanity is waning quickly. And the quote is from a TV show, which is the full extent of his knowledge of law school and the legal profession.

    4. Oh grammar Nazi, please forgive the comma splices. He does not know any better :)

      And what he said is very true. People need to be held accountable when life gets tough and not just give up.

    5. Oh AAMPLE doofus-you are not forgiven-stop posting multiple times. Not a word in any of his posts-including "the" and "a"-is true. Anyone enticing the clueless to attend a TTT ought to be ashamed of himself-but as he(actually, you) are a clueless doofus, you're not.
      Life isn't a TV show, and "romance" doesn't pay the electric bill. Debt after three years at this and other cesspools will lead to nothing but lifelong financial ruin.

    6. @12:58,

      People also need to make rational and informed decisions to minimize how tough life will get. All of my friends that went into the trades and became municipal employees for big cities own homes, have gold plated retirements, six figure salaries, and complete job security. Almost none of my friends from law school, including some from big law, fall into this category.

      People are making career and education decisions based on the economy of their parents, not the economy of today. You can't cut a cop or sanitation worker's pay, you can't tell them they don't get a pension, and you can't fuck them. Attorneys can and will continue to be fucked. The same goes for other white collar minions. Unless you are rich or go to a very elite school, you are wasting your time getting an education, pure and simple. That's it. It doesn't matter how it ends, even if you beat the odds, you still aren't going to be doing as well as the counterpart on the other side.

      There is absolutely no reason to go to a trashpit like Seton Hall if you can get admitted to Seton Hall. In other words, if you 1) have the ability to get into that cesspit, and equivalent cesspits, 2) you have no criminal record and 3) aren't morbidly obese, you can and will (if you try) get some form of highly paid and highly secure blue collar big city work. Period, end of story.

      Yes, about 100,000 people take the tests (samples of which you can see online), but these include people that fall into one ore more of the following categories: 1) haven't graduated high school, 2) have criminal records, and/or 3) don't want to spend a few weeks studying for the tests.

      Don't throw your life away. The economy has changed permanently, and it's only going to get worse. You need your get out of jail free card, i.e. Highly compensated, unionized, and protected labor, i.e. Major municipal employment in fields that are considered sacrosant. These jobs aren't easy, but they beat the alternatives ten times out of ten (Apple to Apple comparison).

      You know why the law school scam continues? Because right now, at this fucking very instance, some lemming is reading this. Next to said lemming is his/her boomer parent. The boomer parent grew up in an era of highly compensated private sector employment, replete with severance packages, bonuses, ten percent annual raises, mobility, etc. The boomer also worked in an environment where other boomers tried to fuck each other over using misinformation, i.e. "Bob, you don't want to apply for that job, that's not a good job (snickering inside)." Consequently, the boomer parent is telling the lemming as he/she reads this that we are lying. The boomer is telling the lemming that we are spewing misinformation and it isn't possible that lawyers don't earn money because in his/her day xyz. Since this information flies in the face of the Boomer's personal experiences, he or she will vehemently push the lemming to ignore this warning, and once the lemming ignored these warnings, and his/her life collapses, the lemming is just fucked. Pure and simple.

      Law was a good profession years ago not just because of the low supply, but also because of the demand generated by a large, stable and growing middle class. This allowed lawyers accross the spectrum to have more leverage in salary and work condition expectations, but the middle class is cooked, and it's only going to get worse. The country is about to vote in the woman whose husband engineered the demise of this country by abolishing anti-trust laws and Glass Steagal, while simultaneously instituting the foundation for complete global labor arbitrage, i.e. Nafta etc.

      The only people that will be spared are the municipal employees in essential services and trades. Lemming, if you are reading this, you are welcome to listen to your boomer parents, but when it's all said and done, you have no one to blame but yourself.

    7. Well said. I lost a Boomer friend because I advised his kid not to attend law school. After almost 12 years, I saw my ex-boomer friend and he couldn't even shake my hand and mentioned law school. His daughter graduated with a BS in management and works for the government in the transportation industry and loves it. Father is still pissed at me. Father said, she was "smart enough to be a lawyer, and glared at me....

    8. 1258 AM, 6:54 PM is right. 5:51 is a disgusting troll, and an;y kid who takes this person's advice does so at his/her own risk. Asd a recovering sh!tlawyer, I know a thing or two about actual law practice. Wanna compare notes?

    9. I'm wishing 12:58 would give up--posting that is. 5:51 is a twit.

  12. Professional (or what I call "trade" doctorates) aren't of the same level as PhD. This includes medical, law, dentists, pharmacists (which makes me laugh, you really need a "doctorate" to put pills in a bottle?), chiropractors, optimetrists, et al. A research doctorate (PhD) requires producing new and original knowledge in a given field by conducting original research, publishing it, and defending its originality and contribution to the field. That frequent takes longer than 3 or 4 years. The average time to PhD for physical sclence or engineering in the US for example is 5.6 years (after an undergraduate or master's degree). That is far more involved than merely passing the coursework to learn that trade. Interestingly, a law credential in the US (and still in Europe and most other nations) up until the late 60s or so was known as a "Bachelor of Law" (LLB) not a "Doctor". In Europe, the entry level medical credential is called a "Bachelor of Medicine (and Surgery) and is considered an undergraduate degree. Only the US inflates titles and credentials like we do.

  13. On August 16, 2016, ATL published a Kathryn Rubino piece that was entitled "American Bar Association Thinks Crappy Law School Is Crappy." Here is the full text of that article:

    "Looks like the ABA is getting tough on underperforming schools — well, at least on Ave Maria School of Law.

    As ATL’s own Joe Patrice noted to The Ave Herald, “Ave Maria has stumbled into the ABA crosshairs at a really awkward moment.” See, the Department of Education is thinking ’bout taking away the ABA’s ability to accredit law schools, all because they hand out credentials with the same ease as Donald Trump retweets white supremacists. And as a result, we have the lowest rates of bar exam passage and a generation of law school grads that have the debt but not the .esq to show for their time in law school.

    Despite how good commentators may feel about the tightening of law school standards, none of this is helpful to the folks at Ave Maria who were told by the ABA that their admissions practices were out of compliance. As The Ave Herald reports:

    The standards the law school was found to be out of compliance with require the school to have “sound admissions policies and practices” and admit only applicants who “appear capable of satisfactorily completing its program of legal education and being admitted to the bar.”

    They do have some time to get their house in order:

    The ABA directed Ave Maria Law to develop a plan to bring it into compliance and submit it by Sept. 1, and said a “fact finder” will be appointed to visit the school by Oct. 1 to review the admissions policies and practices.

    “The finding of noncompliance with the standard on admissions is a disappointment but not a cause for alarm,” the school’s president, Kevin Cieply, said in an email statement to school staff and alumni.

    Cieply is hopeful that the incoming class, with their higher grades and test scores, will make a difference in the school’s long-term prospects. As long as they’re capable of passing the bar exam, everyone will be a lot better off."

    Ave Maria Sewer of Law is a certified pile of excrement that admits and enrolls students with pathetic-ass LSAT and UGPA scores. This makes them no different from DOZENS of other ABA-accredited toilets. The fact remains that "law professors" do not give one damn about their graduates' outcomes or job prospects. The pigs ONLY care about clearing and cashing those student loan checks.

  14. ITT Technical Institute stops enrolling students -Nation wide- due to Federal Government pulling Federal Loan program, thus not allowing student to finance their "education" at this institute.


    Pulling Federal Loan borrowing from rip off institution .... How will the students ever afford to continue on for their education?

    On the other hand, wonder if ITT will try to find private loan provider to fill the void... interesting.

    Hope the ABA is watching this issue..... and uses this as inspiration to close down For Profit law schools.

    1. We need to eliminate this distinction between "for profit" and "non profit" law schools. ALL law schools are run for profit. The only difference is whether the profits go to the faculty/deans/admins or to private shareholders. E.G. it is just an accounting classification on paper.

      Some of the very worst offenders among law schools with overpaid deans/staff, high levels of student loan debt, and dismal employment outcomes are non profit schools--Cooley, TJLS, etc.


    Back on October 12, 2015, the Naples Daily News published a Jenna Buzzacco-Foerster article that was headlined "Ave Maria School of Law sees fewer students pass bar exam this year." Take a look at this opening:

    "The number of Ave Maria School of Law students who passed the Florida bar exam dropped this year, marking one of the lowest passage rates the school has experienced since 2010.

    Twenty-two of the 46 students who took the July exam passed, or 47.8 percent of the school’s first-time test takers. That’s down from 56.6 percent one year earlier and falls below the 2015 statewide passage rate of 68.9 percent.

    In a statement, Kevin Cieply, the law school’s president, said school leaders are disappointed by the results but have put measures in place, including mandatory bar preparations courses and increased rigor when measuring students’ academic progress — this fall to improve the passage rate.

    Cieply said the changes will complement increased selectivity and admission profiles of the school’s entering class. However, he said the school might continue to see fluctuating passage rates until the changes take hold.

    A spokeswoman for the North Naples law school did not make Cieply available for an interview, but did provide a prepared statement. In the statement, he said while the school is not satisfied with the current first-time passage rate, most students go on to eventually pass the bar.

    Since 2010, 329 Ave Maria School of Law students have taken the July exam. Of those, 198 students, or about 60 percent, passed the state’s annual July exam on their first try. The statewide passage rate during the same time period was 76 percent."

    In sum, this certified trash pit has been dumping out graduates - for years - without regard as to whether they can pass a bar exam. Then again, you don't need a law license to sell insurance policies - and that's what TTTT graduates face in terms of employment prospects.


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