Thursday, September 1, 2016

News Flash: Idiots Continue to Enroll in Currently Unaccredited Trash Pit University of North Texas Dallas College of Law

Dummies Still Enroll: On August 31, 2016, the Dallas Morning News published a Holly K. Hacker piece that was entitled “Students flock to UNT-Dallas law school despite questions about its future.” Take a look at this opening:

“If students are worried about the future of Dallas' first public law school, it hasn't kept them away. 

Two weeks into its third year, the UNT-Dallas College of Law reports a total enrollment of 387 students. That includes 145 first-year students, a slight increase from last year. 

"I feel good about the numbers," Royal Furgeson, the school's dean, said this week. "We got a little more than we expected." 

College leaders had braced themselves for fewer students after learning the school's accreditation could be in jeopardy. An ABA advisory group said in July that it would recommend UNT-Dallas not be accredited, citing low LSAT scores for some entering students and a shaky financial plan for the school.

The bar association meets in October to decide whether to grant the law school, part of the University of North Texas at Dallas, the accreditation it desperately needs. In Texas, only graduates of accredited law schools can take the bar exam. 

Furgeson said the college is getting ready to make its case. It already has support from some powerful people, including a group of state representatives for Dallas County and other parts of North Texas. 

"Texas needs these students just as much as our community needs UNT-Dallas," the group said in a statement last week. "We are confident that with hard work and a demanding course load, the students of UNT-Dallas will meet the challenges ahead, from the bar exam to their legal careers." [Emphasis mine]

Working the front desk at Motel 6 does not constitute legal work, dolt. Reviewing rental applications or pouring lattes is not much of a “legal career” either. The ONLY numbers that Furgeson – and every other law dean in the U.S. – cares about are the total figure of federal student loan dollars extracted by the pigs. The state has more than enough lawyers.

Real Effort, Huh?: Here is how simple it is to find out whether the law school you have is accredited by the American Bar Association cockroaches. Perform the following Google search: “UNT Dallas College of Law accreditation.” Within two seconds, you will see the link above, to the toilet’s web page. That screen provides this language – which is clear as crystal:

“Accreditation Statement


UNT Dallas College of Law is not currently accredited by the American Bar Association (ABA). As with any new law school, the process of seeking accreditation from the ABA cannot begin until the College of Law completes its first academic year. We will seek accreditation according to the timeline and requirements of the ABA.” [Emphasis in original]

You don’t have two seconds to perform that elementary research, but you want to spend three years of your life in new TTTTT “legal education” program, which limits you to piss poor job prospects?!?! In what universe does that make any damn sense?! High school kids could figure out that this excrement pile is a terrible “investment.” Yet, morons continue to apply and enroll.

Other Coverage: On August 31, 2016, Inside Higher Ed featured an Andrew Kreighbaum article headlined “ABA Tightens Up.” Enjoy the following segment:

“Earlier this month, the American Bar Association’s accrediting arm recommended against approving the University of North Texas-Dallas College of Law, citing low admissions test scores scores of entering students. Days later, it found Ave Maria Law School in Florida out of compliance with its standards, again citing admissions practices. 

The bar association also has considered tightening bar-passage standards to make them tougher for schools to meet. Taken together, the moves might indicate a tougher approach at a time when law-school graduates are facing a tougher job market with ever-growing debt loads. 

The struggles of law-schools' former students have led to increased criticism of the association and the schools. That scrutiny came to a head in a summer meeting of the federal panel that oversees higher education accreditors, who grilled ABA leaders over their monitoring practices and suspended the group from accrediting new institutions for one year.” [Emphasis mine]

The ABA is incredibly lax with member schools, but now that there is outside pressure, the mice have to show that they are serious about their “standards.” Yet, dummies still apply to this cesspool.

Conclusion: If you have an IQ above room temperature, then you will not even consider going to this unaccredited pile of putrid waste – under any circumstances. If you are at a halfway decent job, and you are not opposed to putting in an honest day’s work, then remain in that position. Try to work your way up a little. Be nice to co-workers, become competent at your tasks, and learn from the boss. Employment as an assistant manager at McDonald’s is better than being a TTTTT law student. 

In honor of the recently deceased Gene Wilder, who immortalized the role of Willy Wonka on the big screen: if you attend this festering dung heap, you will live out these words every day for the rest of your life, “You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!” You don't win a chocolate factory. The only thing you get to take home are the skid marks in your underwear - and an ass-load of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. .


  1. The UNT saga, which will play out over the next year or so, will highlight all the tawdry details of the scam.
    "low cost": by UNT's own numbers, the per semester COA is $33,429 for an in-state independent student-a cool $67,000/year.
    Total debt: 200k in-state. This is plus interest, plus any undergrad debt: how will any UNT grad pay this off?
    Job prospects: none at this point, with no accreditation and no alumni network. And even if it eventually gets its ticket, everyone in Texas will remember the problems the school had.
    The ABA: yes, they are talking tough, but the genius dean at UNT has managed to politicize the issue-so the school, eventually, will get accredited, as the ABA will sacrifice the lemmings so it doesn't incur the wrath of politicians.
    A cheerleader dean: Expect many, many press releases about the "low cost" of the school and its mission to accept "non traditional" candidates so it can "serve the unrepresented." As most of the students will never pass the bar exam, they won't be serving anything but lattes, and even those who do pass will still need to pay their bills, starting with the non-dischargable LS loans. So unless the under-represented come up with cold hard cash, UNT grads aren't going to be representing them, either.
    It's all a scam: UNT gets its ticket from the ABA guaranteed within two years. Not a single ABA school since the scam has been publicly exposed, and in fact several more have opened.

    1. That's $33,429 for THE ENTIRE ACADEMIC YEAR, including tuition and COL, not per semester.

    2. Just another example of law school math...

    3. Still $100k in student loans for no job.

  2. Inside Higher Ed published an article yesterday about UNTTTTT and Ave Maria:

    Paul Campos was asked about UNTTTTT. He said, “all things being equal, I’d definitely like to see schools like that provide a kind of alternative model of education as opposed to another really high-priced private law school that doesn’t seem to be doing anything different. It would be ironic that maybe the first school to come along that should be accredited in several years would be the place they start drawing the line.”

    Sewer rat Barry Currier, managing director of the ABA’s section of legal education and admissions to the bar also was also quoted. Check out what the rat said at the very end of the article. Currier said that student outcomes are foremost in the minds of many at law schools and within the ABA. “What you read in the papers sometimes makes it look like the law schools and the council are not taking their responsibility seriously. That doesn’t reflect what’s actually happening on the ground in almost every law school and certainly at the council level.”

    Seriously? After everything we have learned about these pigs over years, such as the fraudulent job statistics that go back years before the economic collapse in 2008, the conditional scholarships and section stacking, and the exorbitant salaries that these pigs make, this pig claims student outcomes are foremost on their minds! The only reasonable conclusion that can be made from the actions of these pigs is that they do not give one damn about student outcomes.

    1. Campos's comment disappoints me. This UNT toilet isn't offering an alternative model. And, no, a toilet that uses the classic diploma-mill strategy of admitting incompetent people on the strength of "experience" should not be accredited.

  3. 'Cause I've got a Fool's gold ticket!
    I've got a Fool's gold twinkle in my eye!
    I never had a chance to shine,
    Never a happy song to blurt.
    But suddenly half accreditation is mine,
    Now I can polish this brown turd!

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingSeptember 1, 2016 at 7:25 PM

      You have me in a poetical mood. So, I am going to paraphrase Leonard Cohen. "Everybody knows the dice are loaded, everybody knows..." Everybody knows that this Cooley Marshal Valpo Summit High School will obtain accreditation. When a bunch of politicians come out in favor of it, its a done deal. Why would they RISK looking like a Mondale promising new taxes? Even the enrollees know that this school will obtain accreditation. "Everybody knows" even, wink wink, the ABA. Everybody knows...

  4. Is that a mug Trump sells at the his casino gift shops?

  5. Everyone deserves a chance to get a law degree. Nando, your out of line here!!!

    1. 4:07a-you are one slow learner. Here's the problem:
      1. If UNT were to close tomorrow, nobody, literally nobody, would miss it other than the overpaid, underworked deans/professors/admin. This school isn't contributing anything to anyone.
      2. Anyone attending this TTTT will most likely graduate with a. lots of debt(don't forget undergrad) and no job-a very likely a poor chance to pass the bar. But even if the grad passes the bar, very poor job prospects await.

      You seem to be unable or unwilling to understand one simple fact(so I'll put it all in caps for your benefit): Forget everything else: THERE ARE MORE LAWYERS IN TEXAS-AND THE WHOLE UNITED STATES. Every TTTT could close tomorrow and the oversupply of lawyers wouldn't be affected for years.
      You seem to equate law degrees with drivers licenses, so for the sake of keeping it simple, they are similar: both require formal schooling(drivers ed v. a TTTT LS) but only one-LS-incurs mountains of soul-crushing, non-dischargable debt.
      Got that?
      Diogenes the Cynic

  6. The job market is so bad out there in IT, taking the LSAT and going to law school seems like the best route to take.

    + More skills / Higher education
    + Access to jobs I wouldn't qualify for
    + Intellectual pursuit

    Besides going to a low cost law school, does anyone have any positive advice to give ?

    1. If you think the market is bad for IT, just wait until you get that TTT law degree. You'll have wasted three years, taken on lots of debt, and actually lessened your job prospects.
      So the positive advice is stay where yu are.

    2. Sadly, 4:46pm is absolutely correct. The JD is likely, in fact probably, to lessen your chances out there. Think very, very carefully before pursuing a JD.

    3. 7:28 is spot on re the lawyer glut, but has perhaps missed the fact 4:07 is pulling our leg.

  7. Paint the handle of that mug green on the side that is shown in the photo. Then the word "CUNT" will stand out quite clearly.

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingSeptember 2, 2016 at 9:10 PM

      Get your mind out of the gutter and let mine float through.

  8. Outrageous!

    We all need to start sending comments to DOE committee that reviews the ABA's role as accreditor of law schools and recommend that the federal government take over the role of accreditation.

    The law schools are not different than the for profit technical schools, thanks to the ABA. Legions of lawyers and very limited JD-required, full-time permanent jobs.

    The lawyer jobs that the first year lawyers get are mostly temporary jobs in the sense that most of these jobs do not by their terms last a career. That is where the problem lies.

    Really outrageous. These students are heading into unemployment and underemployment with worthless degrees. They don't get it, partly because BLS is not publishing real numbers - the actual horrible numbers about lawyer employment in the United States relative to law graduates and the BLS is glossing over temp jobs, involuntary part-time jobs and the horrible underemployment and very low salaries of solos and small firm lawyers..

  9. These schools should not exist. Their rationale for existing- serving the needy - is untruthful, in fact, fraudulent.

    The only way for lawyers to serve people who cannot pay for legal services is for the federal and state governments to subsidize legal services, as they do health care.

    Opening more TTTTs will not subsidize people who cannot afford to pay for lawyers. Opening and keeping these TTTTs in business will just create more heavily indebted, unemployed lawyers and law graduates who cannot pass the bar exam.

    The problem with serving the needy has never been a lack of lawyers.

    You don't have lawyers serve the needy as a career path unless someone pays for those services. It is not the needy and it is not going to be the graduates of this or any other law school spending a lifetime working for free.

    The lawyers need to eat, they need shelter, they need transportation to work or to pay for internet services and computers at home, and they need to pay for legal research services to practice, among other things. Life is not free.

    The TTTTs are disingenuous if they say that accrediting more of them will provide any of those needs that lawyers need to perform legal services for the needy, or any significant amount of legal services to the needy.



    Back on August 4, 2016, KERA posted news reporter Stella M. Chavez’s piece “At UNT Dallas College of Law, Students Get Experience In Underserved Neighborhoods.” Try not to laugh too hard when reading the following dreck:

    “In South Dallas, law school students sit around a table discussing their strategy for an upcoming presentation. The topic: domestic violence and sexual assault.

    Kaylor Aryee wants people to know just how prevalent it is.

    “It also crosses boundaries. So it’s Manziel, Ray Rice, making millions of dollars, and then lower economic status, it doesn’t really matter," she said. "Black, white, young, old – it doesn’t discriminate, so it crosses all socio-economic backgrounds."

    Aryee and her classmates are enrolled in the UNT Dallas College of Law. They’re off campus at a center near Fair Park that provides legal services to residents. The idea here is that students get hands-on, collaborative experience in largely underserved neighborhoods. UNT Dallas says this community-focused approach makes it different than other law schools.”

    Very perceptive, Kaylor! Hell, it usually takes people until the age of 12 to recognize that reality. Sheltered kids might take a few years longer to come to that understanding. Yes, you’re going to become a legal giant, despite your TTTTT law degree, right?!?! Scroll down for this comedy gold:

    "While the job market hasn’t been strong for law school graduates in other parts of the country, UNT Dallas officials say the North Texas job market is better.

    They also say their students aren’t necessarily looking for the classic high-paying, high-powered gigs. Some of them are interested working for non-profits and in government. People like Connie Beckerley, who’s a social worker.

    “Frankly, I didn’t go into law to try to make a lot of money, you know, and nothing wrong with people who do,” Beckerley said. “I get it, the people that want a fulfilling career and that’s great. I want a fulfilling career, a fulfilling career to me isn’t money, it’s helping.

    Valerie James is Assistant Dean of Admissions and Scholarships at the UNT law school.

    “A lot of students that are here understand …. that there’s still great opportunities for lawyers in other areas to represent the middle class of small businesses that don’t have access to lawyers because of cost concerns,” James said.”

    Connie Beckerley is a moron. Imagine if there was a whole group of auto mechanics and car collectors who had the INTENTION of buying classic automobiles – and sinking several more thousands of dollars to restore them – just to turn around and sell them at a substantial loss! That’s essentially what these cretins are doing, when they say that they want to take on an EXPENSIVE-ASS, time-consuming endeavor, i.e. law school, in order to make a pittance. In fact, these kids are even dumber – as the debt is NON-DISCHARGEABLE.

    1. "They also say their students aren’t necessarily looking for the classic high-paying, high-powered gigs. Some of them are interested working for non-profits and in government."

      - I hear that. Just like I won't necessarily be looking to pick up Paulina Gretsky's twin sister at the local dive bar tonight. I'm more interested in the middle aged fat lady who's missing a bunch of teeth.

    2. Loads of people with much better credentials than those _UNTs are interested in working for non-profits and government.

      In any event, people will still come out of _UNT with an assload of debt, which they won't be able to repay even if they do find low-paying work in law.

    3. Problem is that being a Public Defender or DA is no longer considered "My Cousin Vinny" work. It is highly sought after with hundreds of applicants for each position at 50K plus with benefits, pension and income STABILITY. My buddies and I consider a PD gig as the "golden ring." The PDs of today are polished, motivated and accomplished. Gone are the days of the dope smoking, chicken grease stained tie, leather suit jacketed, never washed satin shirt, pony tailed, socialist worker, dude living with his sister public defender.

  11. I finished law school in 1990 debt free. I passed the bar the first time with a high multistate score. It doesn't matter because law school ruined my life. I went to a low second tier law school and only graduated with a 3.1. Jobs were nearly impossible to find. Legal aid, yes but not anything with a living wage. I should have taken my BA from Michigan and got a job on the assembly line. I would have been much better off.

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingSeptember 2, 2016 at 7:26 PM

      Hind sight is 20/20. I didn't know any better back then either. I trusted the Deans and Prawfs---and maybe they didn't have the data as well. Don't forget, the law was "recession proof" and lawyers were successful. I was offered a full ride on an MA/PHD program at a top State School. I turned it down for law school, a huge debt and now chronic underemployment. My Schedule C last year was 29K. You are not alone. Huge regrets too.

    2. You two D-Bags need to work harder. Only looser's pull less than $30k on a schedule C (especially with a JD).

      TRY HARDER !!!!!

    3. The good Captain and Mr. Z are spot on. I concur. Before the attorney glut and scam law schools, I had as much appointed work as I wanted and consistent income year after year between 65-100K. In addition, all these PI and Domestic Relations guys referred ALL their criminal stuff to me. Today, one PI guy is applying to jobs paying 50K and another is taking ticket cases at 150 per court appearance. There are guys breathing down our necks----more desperate than ever for work. If I tried any "harder" I risk runs ins with the Model Rules and loosing my reputation for fair play. Poaching, soliciting and hallway hustling are no no's.

  12. You must be a GED rather than a JD. You misspelled loser as 'looser'. As matter of fact, you are likely a high school drop out.


    This is hilarious!

    "Why Choose UNT Dallas College of Law?

    UNT Dallas College of Law offers you a uniquely innovative legal education, at a tuition that gives you the right value and in a dynamic Dallas location, right downtown.


    We are a new law school, with a fresh emphasis on learning by doing. We utilize the best instructional practices, offer engaged, experiential and collaborative learning, and provide ongoing assessment for our students. Since sound legal judgment is cultivated by experience, we give you ample opportunities to do real law. Most of our upper level courses include a “lab” component that applies the subject matter while developing practical competencies. And our students actively participate in practice settings while receiving mentoring and guidance.


    Our students not only learn legal theory, but also practical skills, such as how to negotiate, how to prepare an agreement, and how to manage a practice. In short, they learn skills that relate to practicing real law in the real world. Our students also move purposefully towards readiness to pass the bar exam upon graduation.


    Our presence in downtown Dallas places us close to the courts, to the bar, and to outstanding lawyers. As a professional school, UNT Dallas College of Law and our students will gain by proximity to experienced members of the profession, and from externships and other opportunities that will enrich the classroom experience."

    Yes, you dunces focus on real-world solutions - such as attaining ABA accreditation for the first graduating class from your commode, right?!?! When you see any law school touting its "innovative approach" or "location," then you KNOW that it is a cesspit. This one has yet to obtain full ABA approval.

  14. I got drunk and shit my pants last night.

    P.S. I graduated from Pace Law School.

  15. I am a 28+ year civil trial lawyer with my own practice. My experience is that too many people are entering the profession to change the world but do not necessarily want to be lawyers. My suggestion to those folks is to consider a different line of work. Law school really should be left to those that want to be lawyers. Too many of the young associates that I have worked with over the years have gone to law school for the law school educational experience, as a 3 year safe harbor from undergraduate student loan debt or as a resume builder to enter the business field or another line of work. These choices which I have seen on many occasions is likely going to produce disastrous results namely no employment prospects with lots of student loan debt.

    To all those who champion the concept of helping others, be careful about selecting law as the path to do that. The ability to help others requires resources and credentials and the legal industry is already saturated with unemployed or underemployed lawyers in the public interest sectors. So before jumping into a legal education, be extremely self-critical of that decision and evaluate all of your options. Don't go to law school simply because you are not good at math or science and business school does not interest you. I wonder how many of the students attending North Texas would not be better served doing internships for non-profits dedicated to assisting less fortunate members of their communities rather than signing up for a professional existence that would almost assure them suffering from the same economic hardships of the people they are trying to help. I see too many experienced private practitioners who do not generate enough fees to "make a living" and marginally subsist hand to mouth on criminal and child neglect court appointments. These experienced lawyers, some of whom graduated from Top Tier Law Schools cannot afford an office, administrative staff, health insurance, a mortgage or a very well deserved vacation. They consider themselves street lawyers and it is a brutal existence.

    For those very generous souls out there looking to live a life in service of the less fortunate, I would encourage you to be creative on how you can serve these needs without embroiling yourself for 3 years and racking up law school debt.

    I enjoy reading the comments on this site. I can do without the bad pictures but the dialogue is generally very healthy. Best of luck to everyone.

    1. If your still in the game then it cannot be that bad?? Do not be a hypocrite!

      There is still money out there to be made in the legal field. Attend Seton Hall LS and you have it made !

    2. If we apply 611's logic, which is that one should pursue law because a few will make it, then one is better served attempting an MLM scheme. The top people in an MLM scheme make millions of dollars and do not work very hard once they achieve a certain status ( see an Amway triple crown income as an example). Moreover, any debt one assumes in pursuing such an endeavor can be discharged in bankruptcy. Additionally, there is no lost opportunity cost or training period associated with such schemes, i.e. you can start right away, not after seven years of training.

      Fucking troll.

    3. 6:11, there is still some "money in the game." Not enough to go around to all 1.8 million lawyers and growing. I know an experienced lawyer who works at Target and another working at a fueling station on the weekends. You do what you can with what you got...that does not mean its sustainable or that there is room for another lawyer who needs to bring in at a minimum 65K to cover loans and housing for herself.

  16. Gene Wilder R.I.P. :(


    Back on February 6, 2015, the Dallas Morning News published a piece from UNT Dallas Commode of Law cheerleader James Ragland, under the headline “Ragland: With no alumni, first-year UNT Dallas law school gets creative to scout for mentors.” Check out the following portion:

    “If only the late Louis A. Bedford Jr. could see the dynamic mentoring program named after him.

    If Dallas County’s first black judge, who died last April, could see the diverse group of first-year law students — a mix of old and young, Hispanic, black and white — who are being coached by dozens of local attorneys.

    It’s all happening in downtown Dallas, at the first public law school in North Texas.

    “We’re basically a North Texas law school,” Royal Furgeson, founding dean of the University of North Texas Dallas College of Law, was quick to point out. “We don’t angle or aspire to be a statewide or even regional law school.”

    What the law school does want, however, is to stand out, to bring new energy and faces into a legal profession that, particularly in Dallas County, is notorious for its dearth of women and minorities at major firms.

    It’s definitely off to a great start, with impressive enrollment statistics for an as-yet unaccredited first-year law school. More than 600 students applied, about four in 10 were offered admission, and 25 percent (153) enrolled.

    Fifty-two percent of the students are women, and 48 percent are minorities.

    Since most of its students are “nontraditional” first-year law students — with an average age of 33 — the law school was eager to establish a robust mentor program.

    But with no alumni base, it had to show ingenuity.”

    How many of those licensed attorney “mentors” will go out and HIRE graduates from the Univer$iTTTTTy of NorTTTTTh TTTTTexa$ Dalla$ Commode of Law?!?! That’s what I thought, Bitch! Then again, if the trash pit does not have ABA accreditation, then these JDs cannot sit for the state bar exam. That makes it even tougher to get a job as a lawyer.

    1. I'm eager to see the LSAT scores for this toilet. Why should a mentor want to help dolts in the bottom decile or so? Let's admit it: such "students" will never be good lawyers, however much mentoring or instruction they may get.

      What that article describes isn't mentorship. It seems that the "mentors" are meeting large groups of students once in a while, rather than advising individuals.

    2. Average age of 33 at 1L - Doesn't bode well for eventual employment let alone mentoring relationships with practitioners, who may well be much younger!

    3. Key line: "...Dallas County, is notorious for its dearth of women and minorities at major firms."
      What a second-I thought UNT had no interest in "major firms" aka BigLaw, and was just going to keep fighting the good fight, representing the underserved.
      It's all just hypocrisy.

  18. There are no jobs now -- in anything.

    Student aren't enrolling in law school because they're dumb. Student are enrolling because they're desperate.


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