Saturday, October 22, 2016

Epic Failure: Arizona Summit Law School Posts First-Time Passage Rate of 24.6 Percent on July 2016 Arizona Bar Exam

Outlandish Results: On October 18, 2016, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry that was labeled “Law School Posts Worst Bar Exam Passage Rates In Its Existence, Drags Down Entire State’s Passage Rates.” Enjoy this opening:

“This summer, we regaled our readers with the tale of one for-profit law school’s plan to keep its low-performing students from taking the bar exam — and then failing the bar exam — immediately following graduation. The law school now requires that all students with GPAs below a 3.33 take and pass a mock bar exam as a graduation requirement, knowing full well that such a requirement may preclude countless students from being able to graduate and further sully their otherwise abysmal bar exam passage rates. 

Prior to implementing this plan, the law school allegedly offered graduates a four-month, intensive bar preparation program with a $5,000 stipend and called graduates the day before the exam and offering a $10,000 stipend for them to defer taking it. The institution in question is Arizona Summit Law School (formerly known as the Phoenix School of Law), and now that the results from the July 2016 administration of the Arizona bar are out, it’s time to see if anything this school has done to better prepare its graduates for the test has worked out. Thus far, nothing has helped Summit graduates: 

[Chart showing a 28.4% overall bar passage rate on February 2016– along with a 38.1% success score for first-time takers – from the trash pit known as Arizona Summit Law Sewer]

As we noted previously, according to a press release from the Supreme Court of Arizona’s Committee on Examinations, the overall pass rate for the July 2016 exam was allegedly 53 percent. As it turns out, the overall pass rate was even worse than that — the true overall pass rate for the July 2016 exam was 52.9 percent. At the time, we wondered whether Arizona Summit had yet again derailed the results to allow for the state’s worst bar-passage rate in more than a decade. The school-by-school pass rates were released yesterday, and we can now confirm that this is indeed what happened. 

Just how poorly did Arizona Summit Law graduates perform on the July 2016 exam?.. 

[Chart highlighting Arizona $ummiTTTT’s 24.6% first-time passage rate for July 2016] 

This is Arizona Summit’s worst bar exam performance to date. This is atrocious. “It’s despicable that this school continues to admit students, many taking on $100,000+ in debt, knowing that their chances of ever practicing law are slim to none. I hope AZ Summit loses their accreditation after this,” said one Arizona attorney. Here are some thoughts from one of the school’s graduates as to who may really be to blame: 

It’s not a Summit; it’s Death Valley. The time has come for Dean Mays to pursue other endeavors. Since Dean Mays came onboard in the fall of 2010, bar pass rates have gone from 82% for first time writers in February of 2011 to 24.6% for the same group in July of 2016. The game is over and the students and alumni are the ones that are losing.” [Emphasis mine]

Yes, it’s a big surprise that if you admit and enroll waterheads, then bar pass rates will end up in the toilet, right?!?! Of course, this for profit trash pit will continue to accept cretins – and take their student loan money.

Other Coverage: On October 19, 2016, solid JDU contributor “ichininosan” posted a thread that was entitled “Arizona Summit – First time bar pass rate below 25%.” Check out the following comments:

“ichininosan (Oct 19, 2016 - 9:16 am) 

It's true:

First time bar pass rates at this institution of higher "education": 

Feb 2014: 54.5% 
July 2014: 54.8% 
Feb 2015: 52.6% 
July 2015: 30.6% 
Feb 2016: 38.1% 
July 2016: 24.6% 

triplesix (Oct 19, 2016 - 9:21 am)

Where is the ABA?

cocolawyer (Oct 19, 2016 - 12:58 pm) 

That is what I was saying. Western was stripped for 45% first time bar passage rates. La Verne was stripped for 42% bar passage rates (side not both schools now have accreditation back...sadly). Yet a below 25% bar passage rate and no ABA action? Things have gone from bad to worse.” [Emphasis mine]

The American Bar Association cockroaches don’t give a damn about bar passage rates – or even enforcing their own paltry “standards.” This has always been a bifurcated “profession,” and these bitches and hags have been with the Biglaw and academic types since the beginning. By the way, even when the eunuchs have placed commodes such as La Verne or WhiTTTTier on probation, they have put that back on normal status shortly after the fact. After all, the organization looks out for the scammers and thieves.

Conclusion: The ABA has abdicated its responsibility to the “profession.” Then again, that is only if you believe that is their goal and charge. In the final analysis, the law school pigs are allowed to operate with near impunity, because of the lax “standards” of the racketeer influenced and corrupt organization known as the American Bar Association. Hell, the rodents may slap Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer on the wrist at a later date, but such an action will be for public consumption only. They want to be seen as doing the right thing. In a just world, this school and dozens of others would be shuttered overnight – and the land turned over for petting zoos, homeless shelters, or even parking space.


  1. former admissions guyOctober 22, 2016 at 9:25 AM

    Most law degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on. It matters where you go to law school. It's all about name brand out in the real world. When you're applying for a job the first thing an employer sees is your résumé. If it says Yale they know you're a success and not a risk. If it says fill-in-the-blank top 20 school they'll at least know you're smart. But they might not take a chance on you. If your law degree is from a school outside the top 30 it tells the employer "not good enough."

    Small firms and insurance mills probably don't care as much about pedigree of school. But they also pay way less. I remember seeing students near the top of the class ending up in $40,000 a year jobs. Doing legal work no less. And they busted their humps, and applying anywhere and everywhere. Our school didn't even have an OCI presence. Where you go to law school matters.

    1. ^This.^ There is just no explaining to the trolls out there that, given the fact there certainly ARE successes who come out of TTT's, they are relatively few and far between. On top of that, kids who have that kind of savvy were destined for success anyway, in law school or otherwise. In fact, they'd probably do even better in another endeavor entirely.

      Whereas, attendance at Michigan, Stanford, Columbia, etc. greatly, greatly increases one's odds of success, because prestige largely determines what quality of the initial opportunities will be.

      Remember, kids, those first 9 months after graduation determine your whole trajectory, unless you are one of the real outliers.

    2. Only 16 of the 205 or so accredited law schools in the US see at least 40% of their graduates get the sorts of jobs that could support (at least for a couple of years) the payments on a typical graduate's debt:

      Those law schools can be divided into three tiers. All other law schools—yes, about 190 of them—should be considered fourth-tier toilets.

    3. Small and medium sized firms are more likely to hire regional school graduates over top tier schools. No surprise here. As an attorney myself I know hundreds of others like me. I know very very few lawyers from HYS. None of which compete against me for business. Even the state and federal judges are from local schools for the most part. Having said that I would not allow my children to go to law school these days.

    4. Quite a few years ago, a degree from Bumblefuck U was often useful for getting a job in the area within an hour or so of Bumblefuck. The job might have paid about $60k, which was too little to cover payments on student loans.

      Today, however, that is ceasing to be the case. Bumblefuckers even from the top of the class are uncompetitive for local employment. Consider Arizona Summit: last year it reported 334 graduates but only 83 with full-time, long-term jobs in law. A lot of those jobs, if indeed the reporting is honest (and I wouldn't put anything past the scamsters of Arizona Summit), probably pay about $45k—certainly not enough to cover student loans for a law skule that charges more than that for tuition.

      With few exceptions, those lawyers and judges in your area did not graduate from law school in the past few years. You seem to understand the facts, but unfortunately a lot of people (including lawyers, who should know better) conclude from the presence of a few Bumblefuckers at bar or bench that Bumblefuck U offers respectable prospects of relevant employment. It doesn't, because times have changed.

    5. My friends and I from high school and college didn’t have the advantage of knowing the truth about law school like the current lemmings. And to the pigs who think that somehow we didn’t make it because of the recession, this was long before the recession. Blogs warning about the law school scam did not exist. When we applied to law school, we trusted the pigs’ sales pitches. I should have been suspicious that the career services dean and many of the school administrators were JDs. Strange that these pigs passed up on the opportunity to get rich in private practice and chose to work as an administrator at a toilet law school. Once I got into law school and did not get a single call back interview from OCI, interviewing with big law firms and for federal jobs, I quickly realized the sales pitches were a lie. My friends also landed nothing. We supposedly had “superior” credentials, whatever that means, because we met the stringent criteria these employers established just to interview with them. Then the pigs at my toilet law school started telling me I had to network and blast resumes, because most people didn’t get a job through OCI. I later got to know an alum of my undergrad working as a solo in one of those run down professional buildings. He set me straight on the real legal market. Most lawyers end up working as solos.

      This is why the pigs are so unethical and why a school like Arizona Summitttt has open admissions and a 24% bar passage rate. All along the pigs knew the truth about the legal profession. These pigs went to elite law schools and joined elite big law firms. They knew that eventually their asses would be kicked to the curb by the big law firms they worked for, so they became “professors” and “deans.” Working for a toilet law school making 6 figures while working a few hours per week is a lot better than working as a struggling solo in some sketchy strip mall. In the past they published fictitious job stats to attract students. Once the bloggers exposed the lies and fewer students applied to these dumps, the pigs had to do something to keep the money rolling in. There was no way in hell they were going to go out into the real legal market and open up solo practices. So they drastically lowered their standards.

      For myself and many of my friends, there was never a career in law. We went on to get MBAs, MDs, or were hired into non-legal government jobs. So I always laugh when people say unemployed law grads are losers. Fortune 500 companies were more than happy to hire these people into management once they got an MBA and erased the stain of the JD. The pigs took $100k+ and 3 years of our lives before we moved onto our future careers.

      The pigs unethical conduct has a direct impact on the legal profession. For my friends who went solo or into shit law, they see these consequences on a daily basis. I have one friend who “made it” after law school by getting hired into shit law through an undergrad alumni connection. He worked long hours for $30k a year (again, this was before the recession). After working several years for this guy and seeing no raise or possibility of partnership down the road, he jumped ship and moved around until he finally got a coveted Federal job. He summed up the legal profession like this. Most lawyers are struggling to make a buck. Because they are so desperate, they ultimately cave and commit unethical conduct. Read the Law School Lies blog to understand what it’s like to work for these shit law operations. For my friend that went solo doing criminal defense, the pigs unethical conduct means he struggles to make a living. His life is very similar to the stories told by the good Captain in the comments of this blog and elsewhere

      Go ahead lemmings and take the plunge. You’ll be different. The JD is worth one million dollars! And the deans and law “professors” care so much about your future! Just ask all the recent grads of Arizona Summitttt who failed the bar this summer.

    6. @ 11:29 AM

      Exactly. Slightly over 50% of licensed attorneys work as solos. Over half. Probably tending towards 55% for the last decade.

      Today, you will come out of undergrad and law school owing low-six figures. Between $200-300k.

      One poster here graduated in the early 90's and still has about 90k in debt to pay off because of compound interest.

      If they could have, they would have, right?

      Beyond this, you can start well (biglaw) and finish poorly in law and the odds are strong for that as well. Why? Because everyone else in the same situation is competing for the same not-enough-jobs at the lower levels, including gov't which is limited in open positions as well.

      As far as the Bar exam, no one cares. Well, at least not the law schools. The aim was just to get your money. It was never about if you got a job afterwards. 1.5m JDs for about 750k jobs. The dynamics of each state are different but there is no "lawyer shortage" in any of them and no.. the "Broke as a Joke" spendthrift Boomers aren't retiring anytime soon..

    7. My folks couldn't afford to send me to Undergrad and Law School. Ronald Reagan (Arms for Hostages) cut out my Pell Grants and I graduated with 85K in debt in 1990. It isn't paid off because the interest kept multiplying and compounding. The faster I paid, the behinder I got. I am drowning in law school debt and now the legal market for attorneys has tanked.

    8. To be clear most of the lawyers I know work for themselves as a solo or with a partner or two. There aren't enough paying clients to justify the debt incurred. There are 15 law schools in my home state of New York and most of them are quite close to my office. That is why I said that most lawyers I know attended local schools.

    9. @ 6:39 PM

      I am not criticizing you. I am citing an example. The current crop of Lemmings are STARTING with $200-300k in non-dischargeable student loan debt.

      How fast does everyone think that will capitalize? They are starting at mortgage-size debt-levels.

      Compound interest will KILL YOU.

      Again, I am in no way criticizing you. We will see people at half a million in debt from law school and college. Mark my words.

      Yet, the Eggshell Heads continue to enroll.

      With each passing year, tuition rises faster than inflation, salaries stay stagnant or decline and Real Wages? Fuggetaboutit...

      Every year, 45,000 or so new JDs are added to the lawyer ranks by the ABA-approved Scam Factories. Wave after wave, like the ocean against the shore. There are never enough new jobs for any of the current crop let alone years prior.

      The economy is worse than ever and law requires a middle class.

      What idiot in their right mind goes into a field where there are 2-3x practitioners vs. available jobs and everything is a one-off?

      AND pays $2-300k of debt for the privilege?

    10. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingOctober 24, 2016 at 8:05 PM

      Now, I am competing with these Chicago billboard attorneys advertising $49.00 traffic case defense. Try getting three bills for a traffic court appearance. That was considered chump change in 1993. My Obamacare is 4 bills, my IBR is 3 bills.

  2. For the class of 2015, about 40% of the graduates obtained full time, long term, bar passage required jobs. 21% of the graduates were unemployed. About 17% of the class was employed in “professional” and “non-professional” positions, including short term and part time.

    Even if you graduate from this dump and manage to pass the bar, check out what one of their recent graduates has been up to over the past year. Fabian Zazueta, an Arizona Summit law grad admitted to the Arizona state bar in December 2015, worked for an “advocacy” group calling themselves “Advocates for Individuals with Disabilities” (AID). AID flooded the area with at least 1,500 lawsuits against businesses alleging that the parking lots did not comply with the ADA. The businesses were sued for simply having a disabled parking sign a few inches too low, or failing to have the “van accessible” sign below the disabled parking sign. AID would then demand thousands of dollars from the business to settle the lawsuit. The plaintiff that AID represented in all of these cases had actually never even been to the vast majority of these businesses (which included strip clubs). Zazueta was sanctioned by a Federal judge for misconduct in one of the lawsuits. And now the Arizona Attorney General’s Office is taking action after the media investigated the racket. The AG is now intervening in these lawsuits as a limited purpose defendant. The kicker to all of this, when the media visited the dilapidated AID offices, they found that the parking lot was not in compliance with the ADA!

    Here is some of the news coverage:

    The idiot Team AAMPLE / Seton Hall troll should start mentioning this scheme in his comments.

    Hard work, networking, and extorting businesses are the keys to success! Even Arizona Summit grads are making a decent living.

    “You can still eat, in the legal field, if your (sic) willing to hunt !”

  3. Still better than Indiana Tech by 3x - 8% vs. 24.6%.


  4. Arizona Scum-Pit's LSAT scores at the 25th, 50th, and 75th percentiles: 140, 143, 148. Those scores stand at the 13th, 20th, and 36th percentiles of the entire pool of test takers. In other words, this toilet draws its students from the bottom of the pool.

    Apparently the scamsters of the ABA don't deem any LSAT score unacceptable. Nothing stops a law skule from admitting people with a 120, and indeed people with scores in the high 120s have enrolled at the Univershitty of Texas.

  5. Is this the shithole that offered to pay some grads to not take the bar 'zam?

  6. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingOctober 22, 2016 at 8:01 PM

    Hello Sterling Partners!!! Better take a new look at your portfolio.... Is that a great big giant sucking sound I am hearing???? Oh wait, I'm sorry. Private profits and socialized risks courtesy of Uncle Sugar.

  7. If schools are going to take in 'tards with 138 LSATs, low bar pass rates are to be expected. Honestly, if you can't break 150 on the lsat you have no fucking business being in law school.

    1. I'd set the threshold at 160, but even 150 would force scores of law skules to close their doors.

      The law-school scamsters have turned law from a learnèd profession into a vo-tech program. No intelligence is required, just a pair of steel-toed boots.

    2. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingOctober 23, 2016 at 1:25 PM

      Crudely put, but essentially correct. Take a gander at any mid 20th Century Popular Mechanics or Popular Science Magazine. One will find ads for correspondence law schools like Blackstone and LaSalle Extension University. One can find careers for carpet cleaners, Victor C. Newman and his rubber stamping opportunities and basement toilets that flush up. 2016 is the new 1966.

    3. Quite a few law schools don't have the level of dignity or honesty that you find at a decent vo-tech program. Those programs make no bones about teaching students the nuts and bolts of actually working in a particular field. You don't see students at electrician programs learning to "think like an electrician" by being Socratically pestered and quizzed on bizarre 1920s-era electrical issues. Instead, it's a matter of "X pays money. We will teach you a little about the science and math involved in X, then we will go to the shop and learn how to actually do X in the real world."

      Sure, none of the visions of "classiness" or "status" or "finding meaning through work" that enchant so many K-JD lemmings. But the work pays real money, because you deliver services that people actually need and are willing to pay for.

    4. I would set it at 165 or 167. Medical schools don't let it everyone that applies, why should law schools?

      If anything, there is a greater need for doctors so more of them should be admitted to the field than lawyers.

  8. Does anyone know what the passage rate would be for a 1,000 randomly-selected college graduates who took a bar exam prep course?

    And what it would be if said students were told they would have to pay $250,000 and give up three years of their lives if they failed?

    1. It'd be higher than the IQ of the dumbshit who says it doesn't matter where you get your law degree from since the casebooks are the same.



    Arizona Summit Law School’s mission is to establish the benchmark of inclusive excellence in professional education for the 21st Century. As a testament to our mission, The National Jurist recently named Arizona Summit Law School one of the nation’s most diverse law schools. We have created an environment that is welcoming to persons of all backgrounds and life experiences. That also includes creating opportunities for people outside the traditional scope of LSAT scores and undergraduate GPAs. We believe the potential for success is about more than numbers. You are more than your scores.

    Our primary responsibility is to enable you to become a successful professional. This responsibility includes equipping you with the tools and competencies essential for effective lawyering. At Arizona Summit Law School, we provide a rigorous and challenging practice-readying experience that develops your intellect and prepares you for a career in law or a related field. Because professional success is merely an aspect of personal success, however, our focus is not just upon developing your intellectual prowess but unlocking your full potential.

    We welcome you to the Arizona Summit Law School community and invite you to explore why Arizona Summit Law School is the right choice to prepare you for your future.”

    Yes, you bastards are truly setting a standard of excellence, with your admi$$ion$ policy of accepting anyone with a pulse – and the willingness to take on more student debt. Look at the entering class data for those who entered your TTTT halls in Fall 2013, courtesy of Law School Transparency:

    25th percentile LSAT: 141
    50th percentile LSAT: 144
    75th percentile LSAT: 148
    25th percentile UGPA: 2.51
    50th percentile UGPA: 2.88
    75th percentile UGPA: 3.21

    Admitting a bunch of minorities – or those with different backgrounds - does not mean the same thing as academic excellence. Then again, you want to conflate the two in order to mask your real objective: enrolling as many morons as possible into your garbage law school. That same LST chart shows that you 310 first year law students/willing victims that year.

    When you are looking for a career – the real reason why college graduates take entrance exams and go to professional schools – none of those employers gives a damn if you went to a school that was “diverse.” They care about results and if you are smart and capable. When they see “Arizona Summit Law School” on your resume, they quickly realize that you are a joke as a job applicant. Lastly, that first-time bar passage rate for July 2016 SHOWS CLEARLY that this commode does not “develop your intellect” or “prepare you for a career in law or a related field.”

  10. Are there any FAMU Law alumni out there that can share a positive experience story after graduating with your JD.

    The cost of attendance is really a bargain. Even if ending up doing criminal defense work, at least you can
    live a decent life, and pay back the student loans...

    The only suckers are the one's attending expensive tuition schools.
    I bet 3 years out after passing the bar, everyone will be gainfully employed.

    1. Uh, the discussion here is about AZ Summit-what does FAMU have to do with that? But just so you know, for the FAMU ls class of 2015: of a class of 147, 56 had bar passage required jobs-and 36 were flat out unemployed.

  11. Check out the testimonials on Arizona Summittttt’s website. An anonymous father of a student writes:

    “My daughter is attending Summit, and I am an attorney with 32 of years experience. We visited about 14 law schools before choosing Arizona Summit. The law school may not have the long-term reputation of an ivy league school, but Arizona Summit teaches the nuts and bolts to be able to pass the bar and practice law. It's got a great bar passage rate. (See their statistics). That's what I'm looking for when I hire new associates for our law firm in Albuquerque.”

    Over the years, I’ve grown to appreciate the humor coming out of these toilets. I laughed when Cooley published their own rankings and ranked themselves #2. I chuckled when they bought the naming rights to a minor league baseball stadium. (Cooley Law School Stadium is a mouthful, I’m curious to know what the players and fans nickname the place) I liked the “move to Nebraska” advice. But this testimonial from Arizona Summitttt has to be one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen put out by these toilets. This stupid testimonial even emphasizes "see their statistics."

    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingOctober 24, 2016 at 4:59 PM

      They may be on to something here. If enough people attend this Unranked low level school, it can snowball. It becomes the NEW reality. Why, "everybody went there." What's the problem? It's like the new reality of Social Media. Gang Bangers in large metro areas shoot at each other over this because it is the NEW REALITY. Arizona Summit and Gang violence takes on a life of its own...

    2. What's sick is that low ranked schools can get away with charging Harvard type prices. Buffoons want to go to law school and if they're not smart enough to get into a real law school there are several shitty ones that'll take them in.

    3. A great bar passage rate? What?! Pretty much only Indiana Tech does worse.

  12. Thanks to sites like this one, The Scam is no longer a secret. Today's kids have access to the dire warnings of previous generations; attend a low-prestige school at your own risk. I

    1. Even if one attends a Ranked school, know that the market for attorneys is grotesquely saturated. Even PD jobs at 32K attract a long line of resumes from both newby and veteran attorneys who are desperate for work and health insurance. It is brutal.


    More great insight from the JDU thread above, which was cited in the main entry:

    “ichininosan (Oct 19, 2016 - 9:23 am)

    The true scandal is not the bar pass rates. Rather it's the fact that this school has long charged more than $40K per year in federal student loan (i.e. tax) dollars 💵 to sell the dream of becoming a practicing lawyer with a decent income, which few of these students ever became or achieved even when they were (mostly) passing the bar exam.
    jdcumlaude (Oct 19, 2016 - 10:44 am)

    the scary thing is the for-profit model has existed for decades we just hid the for-profit model behind a non-profit many private "non-profit" schools follow a for-profit model...and they profit at the expense of young people and later on tax payers when all these loans hit their forgiveness dates.
    mrtor (Oct 19, 2016 - 11:08 am)

    You can't help stupid. These dreamers knew what they were getting into. They dug their own graves and now they should suffer the consequences.

    That being said, the ABA needs to strip these schools of accreditation. The federal government and taxpayers are shouldering the burden as these morons rack up enormous student debt with little or no possible way of ever paying it off. If the ABA fails to act, the federal government should turn off the student aid pipeline (like they did with ITT) and make these students self-fund if they want to "follow their dreams."

    I would love to see the loan default rate for Arizona Summit grads.”

    If the American Bar Association was a true governing body looking out for the broad “profession” – including future lawyers, potential clients, and its reputation – then it would shut down these cesspools. At this point, third and fourth tier law schools have a lower standing than used car dealerships. More gems from the JDU post:

    “flharfh (Oct 19, 2016 - 10:53 am)

    19.7%, including repeat takers. Less than 1 in 5. And this school fails out the bottom quarter of each class after 1L year due to poor performance.

    If there was ever a poster child for the scam, here it is.
    cocolawyer (Oct 19, 2016 - 12:51 pm)

    Woah these guys have worse passing rates then Cal-Bar schools. Its amazing that their ABA accreditation have not been striped as of yet.”

    Anyone still applying to - let alone enrolling in - this school should undergo psych testing. Only a mental midget would even consider the trash pit known as Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer.

  14. I would pay to see you and one of the summit grads go head to head in court. I bet they wipe the floor with you.

    Everyone deserves a shot at practicing law. Stop being a dream crusher.

    1. The difference is that I, along with all of your other customers, pay good money to see whether you or your Arizona $ummiTTTT graduate co-worker can do a better job of making my sandwich, Bitch. Although, you do seem to do a more thorough job of wiping the floors and cleaning the toilets and urinals. What is today's sandwich deal?

      By the way, most attorneys do not make many court appearances. Even trial lawyers spend most of their days reviewing documents and drafting responses and forms. Also, it's pretty hard to do well in court if you fail the bar exam.

    2. Nando come on ... take It easy....

      its ok to take a second bite at the apple, by taking the bar twice. After all we are only human.

      I bet the next round of bar attempts display a clear sign of redemption, with the AAMPLE grads leading the way.

      you guys on this blog really give AAMPLE grads a hard time and unnecessary bad reputation.

      You should provide inspirational uplifting advice, instead of putting them down.

    3. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingOctober 25, 2016 at 4:05 PM

      I deserve a shot at the NBA, but not gonna happen. Maybe everyone would like a "shot" at the NBA? Does everyone deserve to a shot at flying a 747? Being a brain surgeon? Why is being a lawyer any different. I worked hard at it at a ranked school and had excellent scores and grades. I worked for it. I never told anybody I "DESERVED" it.

    4. 9:09 AM: What is your area of practice? No one is stopping anyone from going to law school, by the way. As you can see, ANYONE can go to law school. We just like to see the kids have all the information so that they can make an informed decision. Surely you can understand that!

    5. That's the problem captain.

      In certain circles in the legal community "ranked schools" and "excellent scores" ARE NOT THE NEW FORMULA FOR SUCCESS.


      Guess what building relationships and establishing connections trump this, and therefore the system is kind of rigged.

      You seem like an old dog that can not learn new tricks, and therefore are not flexible to adapt to the system. And only offer complaints and bad news spreading doom and gloom.

      Such a pity. A Shot out to the AAMPLE grads out there hustling hard and making things happen and not blaming hard times on others, but choosing to adapt and rise above !!!

      Old Guy... do you concur??

      Where is the accountability???

    6. Would you rather drive a Mitsubishi Mirage (TTT TTTT) or an MB S Class (T-1)? Subaru (T-2) or a Yugo (unranked)?

    7. The trolling has knocked this discussion way off track. So let's stick to the facts:
      1. No one is stopping anyone from attending law school, at all. Many posters here, seasoned attorneys, are sharing their real life experiences-and opinions-nothing more. And the long time troll 5:25 posts here too, offering platitudes and insults, with his wisdom replete with spelling and grammar errors; he offers nothing of substance but keeps coming back. I'd recommend that Nando ban him, but that's up to Nando.
      2. 75% of Arizona Summit test takers flunked the Bar. Like it or not, passage of the Bar is required for them to be able to practice law. And, unfortunately, this is a bad omen, as the percentages are clear: if you don't pass the first time, it's much more likely that you'll flunk the second time.
      Whether AAMPLE grads are as adept at legal practice as HLS grads is irrelevant. You've got to pass the Bar first, and Arizona Summit grads aren't doing that.

  15. Fw dreams, mostly nightmares, or the life of the living dead, practicing law.

  16. After seeing trolls write their usual comments about crushing dreams and AAMPLE grads “hustling hard,” it’s important reemphasize the message of all of the blogs writing about the law school scam. Nobody is saying don’t go to law school. If it is your dream to be a lawyer, by all means become a lawyer. But you should not go to law school unless: 1) you get into a top 8 law school on scholarship (which many commenters have recently questioned), 2) you get a full-tuition scholarship to attend, or 3) you have employment as an attorney secured through a relative or close friend.

    If someone reads this blog and uses the information to put in the extra effort to get good grades in undergrad and to score high on the LSAT, allowing them to get into a top school, then the blogs and commenters have succeeded. If a graduate from a top school commented on this blog that they used the information here and secured a sweet federal job or a private practice job that will not kick them to the curb after a few years, they would be congratulated and lauded!

    Or if someone who read this blog has a family connection that will get them a job, and decided that they should only attend a toilet law school that offered them a full scholarship, then the blogs and commenters did their job. I promise you, if a recent graduate wrote in the comments of this blog that they went to a toilet law school on full scholarship because they have a family connection inside Crook County that got them a job in the city law department or prosecutors office, we would congratulate them for using the information and landing a job debt free. Hell, if the daughter of that idiot who gave the testimonial about Arizona Summit, commented on here that she went to Arizona Summit because it was the only school that offered a full ride, and now she is working for her father, we would congratulate her!

    That is not hard to understand at all.

    1. ^This.^ Our AAMPLE friend can't understand that we're not stopping anyone from attending law school. Anyone can go to law school, including a whole lot of kids defaulting into it , trying to "cure" a useless BA in undergrad. Many of us have been out there in the trenches of solo sh!tlaw and like to warn the kids of what will, MOST LIKELY, happen to them if they attend and pay too much for one of these TTT's. There ARE successes from sub-standard schools. Just don't expect to be one of them!

    2. A full-tuition "scholarship" does not justify going to law school. Probably a Vanderbilt or even a Minnesota wouldn't be bad at zero tuition, but even there the decision calls for thought. At three-quarters or more of the law schools, even zero tuition is too expensive.

      Even Harvard and Yale nowadays are questionable propositions.


    Back on October 26, 2015, the ABA Journal featured a piece from Debra Cassens Weiss, which was entitled "This law school had a 30% bar pass rate; do lower standards presage troubled times for law grads?" Take a look at this portion:

    "The Arizona Summit Law School has posted a dismal bar passage rate despite its offer of $5,000 to poorly performing students who delay taking the bar exam.

    Only 30.6 percent of first-time test takers from the law school passed the July 2015 bar exam, report Above the Law and an Atlantic article by University of Colorado law professor Paul Campos.

    The law school is owned by InfiLaw, a for-profit subsidiary of the private equity firm Sterling Partners. All of its law schools began slashing admissions standards in 2012, and now their students are paying the price. Arizona Summit’s 30.6 percent bar passage rate is down from 75 percent; Florida Coastal School of Law has a bar passage rate of 59 percent, down from 76 percent; and Charlotte School of Law’s bar passage rate is 47 percent, down from 78 percent.

    Campos alleges that the admissions process at InfiLaw schools “is now close to a fully open-enrollment system, that inevitably matriculates many people who have little chance of ever passing a bar exam.”

    A new report by Law School Transparency sees troubled times ahead for graduates of many law schools because more students are being admitted with lower scores on the Law School Admission Test. The LSAT is the best predictor, before law school, of bar passage, Law School Transparency says.

    The report categorizes LSAT scores of 147 to 149 as denoting a high risk of bar failure, scores of 145 and 146 as denoting a very high risk of bar failure, and scores of 120 to 144 as denoting an extreme risk of bar failure.

    In 2014, 74 law schools admitted classes consisting of at least 25 percent of students at high or greater risk of failing the bar, compared to 30 schools in 2010. Every for-profit law school enrolled classes consisting of at least 50 percent at-risk students. Infilaw-owned schools enrolled classes consisting of between 75 percent and 100 percent at-risk students. The report predicts that bar passage rates will drop significantly over the next three years as a result."

    That article was published one year ago today - and things have not improved for the trash pit. In fact, the first-time bar PASSAGE rate dropped from 30.6% down to 24.6 percent! Only a law school pig or a waterhead would argue that this dung heap should remain open.


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