Sunday, November 6, 2016

Passing the Buck: Pigs at the Maurice A. Deane School of Law at Hofstra University Blame Lazy Graduates for Lower Bar Passage Rate


http://abovethelaw.com/2016/11/law-school-blames-lazy-graduates-with-low-gpas-for-abysmal-performance-on-bar-exam/?rf=1

Throwing JDs Under the Bus: On November 4, 2016, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry entitled “Law School Blames Lazy Graduates With Low GPAs for Abtsmal Performance On Bar Exam.”  Check out this opening:

“While law schools across the country have tried to find a solution to their graduates’ bar exam problems, be it through blaming the test for being unfair or too difficult or allegedly begging their graduates not to take the exam at all, passage rates in many jurisdictions have continued to drop precipitously. 

Law schools in New York are still a bit tense, and with good reason — after all, the overall pass rate of 64 percent for the state’s first administration of the Uniform Bar Exam in July 2016 was only a modest improvement over the results from the July 2015 exam, which were the worst New York had seen in more than three decades. One New York law school seems to have pinpointed the exact reason why its overall pass rate was so low. The school revealed in a recent email to all students that graduates with low GPAs and students who refused to work hard on studying dragged down the school’s overall pass rate. Which law school could it be? 

The school in question is Hofstra Law School, and its bar passage rate has progressively slipped from 84 percent in July 2013 to 64 percent in July 2016. You can be sure that any law school with a 20 percentage point drop in graduates capable of passing the bar exam would search for the root cause of the problem, but like many law schools that have lowered their admissions standards in recent years, Hofstra’s quandary may be of its own doing.

Last night, Hofstra’s dean sent an email to current students about the school’s abysmal bar passage rate. That email contained the following information:

The July 2016 New York State Bar results were released, and our pass rate for first-time takers was 64 percent, a decline of 3 percent from the previous year. The average pass rate for first-time takers at New York schools was 83 percent. … 

Hard work is truly an important factor in Bar success. Studies have found that students who complete at least 75 percent of their commercial Bar prep work have a significantly higher chance of passing the exam. Also, the strongest indicator of success continues to be a student’s final law school GPA. If you are currently ranked in the bottom 50 percent of your class, I strongly encourage you to reach out to our academic success advisors. 

It’s no wonder Hofstra graduates with low GPAs have suffered when it comes to passing the bar exam. Take a look at how the law school’s admissions criteria have sunk since 2010, particularly in the 25th percentile range. Students who entered the school with those numbers may well have become graduates with low law school GPAs, which have been shown to correlate strongly with success (or lack thereof) on the bar exam.” [Emphasis mine]

It’s easier to blame supposed lazy-ass students for bar exam failures than it is to make changes at the school charging them outrageous sums of money in tuition. By the way, you cockroaches chose to admit and enroll those students. Furthermore, only half of any law school class can finish in the top 50 percent of that cohort. These weak “arguments” further illustrate that “law professors” truly are terrible at math.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/hofstra/admissions/

Garbage Admissions Policy: Take a look at the Law School Transparency report for Hofstra University. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, to see the chart showing that the pigs have KNOWINGLY LOWERED their admi$$ion$ “standards” – in order to get more asses in seats, as the number of applications dropped. This is evidenced by the fact that first year enrollment was 365 in Fall 2010, as opposed to 251 in Fall 2015.

Here are the 25th percentile LSAT scores:

Fall 2010: 156
Fall 2011: 155
Fall 2012: 153
Fall 2013: 151
Fall 2014: 147 
Fall 2015: 147

The median LSAT scores were 158, 159, 157, 154, 152, and 153 for the same respective years – and the 75th percentile results were 160, 160, 159, 157, 154, and 155. The 25th percentile LSAT in Fall 2010 was higher than the 75th percentile LSAT figure – at the same damn school – in Fall 2014 and Fall 2015! Do you understand the implications of those numbers, Lemming?!?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5

The Toilet’s Ranking: As you can see, the Maurice A. Deane Sewer of Law at Hof$TTTra Univer$iTTTy is rated as the 111th greatest, most fantastic, and amazing law school in the entire damn country! Hell, it “only” shares this distinction with 11 other commodes. What a tremendous in$TTTiTTTuTTTion, huh?!?!

http://law.hofstra.edu/directory/departments/financialaid/tuition/index.html

Tuition: This is incredible, folks. Full-time tuition at the Maurice A. Dean Sewer of Law – for the 2016-2017 academic year – stands at $55,860. How is that for a slap in the face? In comparison, full-time tuition at top ranked Yale Law School is $57,615, for 2016-2017.

Conclusion: Do not even consider applying to the rancid pile of fecal matter known as the Maurice A Deane School of Law at Hofstra University. Do you think – for one microsecond – that you will stand a chance competing against JDs from NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard or Yale, for the high-paying jobs needed to repay your NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt?!?! If so, then you do not possess the mental capacity to order food for yourself from McDonald’s. But if you do graduate from Hof$TTTra, then you may have a decent chance to scrub toilets for that establishment.

34 comments:

  1. It was quite difficult to get into this school 30 years ago. The bar passage rate for this school the year I took the test was 88 percent - and I believe it was down from the previous few years. These current numbers are abysmal.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingNovember 6, 2016 at 8:47 AM

    During the mid-90s, my T-2 school's bar passage rate dipped to 92%. The faculty, Dean and alumni groups had a spaz attack. The Dean sent a letter ( a piece of stationary made from paper sent in an envelope with a stamp affixed to it for you Millenials) prior to widespread adoption of e-mail to all alumni indicating she would tighten admission standards and decrease enrollment. It worked. We went back to the high 90s a few years later and remain there today.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Holy shit. Hofstra's ranked 111th? I remember when it was in the 50s or 60s. How it has fallen.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They started telling the truth about employment numbers, that's how. If all schools told the truth as Hofstra does they would be ranked higher. Oh, and don't think the tell the truth because they are virtuous. They tell the truth because they got sued in the past and can't afford another hiccup.

      Delete
  4. Compare Hofstra’s ranked law school to its unranked new medical school that admitted the first class in 2011.

    US “News” Rank
    Law school: 111th
    Medical school: Primary care rank not published

    Tuition (according to US “News”)
    Law school; $54,250
    Medical school $47,000

    (Interesting that a school that simply requires a lecture hall is more expensive than a school that requires a cadaver lab, a path lab, a microbiology lab, etc.)

    Enrollment (according to US “News”)
    Law school: 679
    Medical school 331

    (There are a limited number of government funded residency positions. There is no requirement preventing U.S. medical schools from producing more graduates than available residency positions. Yet, they choose to limit the number of graduates. But ABA approved law schools have no qualms with churning out unemployed law grads.)

    GPA/Admissions Test
    Law school: Class 50th percentile GPA 3.39 / Class 50th percentile LSAT 153 (55th percentile)
    Medical school: Mean GPA 3.62 / Mean MCAT 33 (91st percentile)

    (While this is not a comparison of the same statistics, it does illustrate that the medical school admits much higher quality students than the law school. Also worth noting, pre-med students are required to take much more difficult courses than pre-law students, such as the much dreaded Organic Chemistry.)

    Outcomes:
    Law school class of 2015: 66% employed in FT, LT, bar passage required jobs. 5% employed in FT, LT, bar passage required jobs with law firms of 101+ attorneys. 11% unemployed (including status unknown). The percent of unemployed grads would have been 17% without temporary university funded positions. 2 students working in non-professional jobs and 3 desperate solos (out of a graduating class of 301).
    Medical school class of 2015: 100% residency match rate (all of the graduates went on to residencies that pay salaries in the $50k range, with benefits such as health insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, paid vacation, and paid travel to conferences).

    Misc scam notes:
    127 law students had conditional scholarships reduced or eliminated in the 2014-2015 academic year. The law school accepted transfer students from a Who’s Who of toilet law schools: Arizona Summit, Charleston, Cooley, Touro, Western New England University. Great job putting more butts in seats without hurting your precious GPA/LSAT data reported to the US “News.”

    The difference between Hofstra’s ranked law school and unranked medical school is pretty incredible. You have two professional schools that should in theory have the same mission. But one is a scam operated for the benefit of the faculty and “professors,” and the other is operated for the benefit of the students and society.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Not true... this school is better than the NY Tier 4 schools, Cuny, and New York Law School.

    At least we are ranked higher, which equals better job prospects!!!



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you're ranked the same as New York Law School..

      Delete
  6. Some people from Hofstra do well. As a graduate of one of the schools you have listed above as more competitive, I have been beat out several times for jobs by graduates of Hofstra Law. One issue is age- I was old when the Hofstra grads were significantly younger. Another issue was business - a Hofstra grad who can bring in business will do a lot better than a graduate of one of the listed competitive schools with no business.

    All of that being said, you are really playing the lottery going to Hofstra Law. Very few graduates end up with the type of career success I am describing.

    ReplyDelete
  7. This should clear up everything:

    https://law.hofstra.edu/_site_support/files/pdf/admissions/jdprogram/standard-509-info-report.pdf

    COA: $54250

    Plus

    Living Exp: $24547

    Equals: $80 GRAND for 3 YEARS

    Which is: $240,000

    Plus

    Any Undergrad Debt

    Plus

    Opportunity Costs of not working for 3 years

    ==

    DOOM.

    Suck my dick..

    If these Lemming assholes, like the kids at Indiana Tech for example, can't do their research with the scam blog movement coming into full force since 2007 and growing each year after that, then there's no help for them.

    "Sophisticated consumers" .. Hardly.

    More like dolts who believe the spoon-fed shit their equally assholish Boomer parents have fed them their entire lives.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. These poster children of the 130s and the 140s certainly are not sophisticated, but they are not innocent little lambs either. Even they should hesitate to sign up for a quarter of a million dollars' worth of non-dischargeable debt, especially to attend a Cooleyite toilet such as Hofstra.

      Delete
    2. http://jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=116715

      iwannadie (Oct 10, 2016 - 7:57 pm)

      It's been 3 years since I passed the bar exam and all I've been able to do is some doc review gigs. I've applied for gov't jobs and law firms and legal aid, everything from associate to contract manager to compliance to administrative assistant.

      i'm unemployable. i have $225k+ debt. i don't know what to do anymore.

      ----------------------------

      So, you started law school in 2010 when enrollment was at historic lows and graduated in 2013.

      Let me see...

      No, no.. Nando certainly wasn't around then. ISTLS Scam (campos) nope... Countless blogs and the WSJ article from 2007.

      No, no...

      You couldn't be bothered using, uh, Google, to DO SOME DAMN RESEARCH and THINK for YOURSELF.

      You, the "sophisticated consumer" decided to charge on ahead, ignoring all the "keyboard jockeys" and bitter naysayers.

      I don't see the problem here.

      Law is a $1M dollar degree.

      That $225K of debt, and growing because of compound interest every day, was a good investment for you.

      You should have no problem paying that off.

      As far as not having a job for 3 years, uh.. "network". "Hustle".

      Hell, open your own Solo shop.

      You did see this, didn't you?

      http://www.younglawyersguide.com/

      There's a Sticky right on JD Blunderground..

      Good luck!

      Delete
    3. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingNovember 10, 2016 at 11:50 AM

      Erect a billboard along any major Interstate in any city that advertises Traffic Ticket Defense from $49.00.

      Delete
  8. In all, I believe that Hofstra Law had no business opening. The market for lawyers was already saturated by the law schools that came before it. The effect of opening this school is maybe 5% or a little more of the class takes the jobs away from graduates of the higher ranked schools you list.

    The net effect of Hofstra is to graduate more people than are needed in the market it serves. Hofstra really has no business existing because the higher ranked, older law schools that serve the same market graduate sufficient numbers of lawyer to fill just about every available JD-required job.

    Yes, if Hofstra closed, the handful of successes each year might not have the same opportunities. In all though, if Hofstra closed, there would be jobs for the bulk of the graduates of higher ranked law schools, including more career positions available.

    ReplyDelete
  9. It's better than shitholes like Touro and Pace but who in their right mind would want to go to Hofstra?

    ReplyDelete
  10. The problem with Hofstra is that they had a terrible dean-- Nora Demleitner--who only cared about advancing her own career. Demleitner lied to students so that she could advance to W & L. Hofstra dropped precipitously in us news when she left and the new dean started telling the truth. Then Hofstra couldn't recruit decent students so they accepted anyone they could get. This is Demleitner's fault.

    However I thought Lane was better but the letter he just sent is disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
  11. http://abovethelaw.com/2016/09/the-best-and-worst-new-york-law-schools-for-biglaw-jobs/?rf=1

    Back on September 28, 2016, Joe Patrice wrote an ATL entry labeled “Best (And Worst) New York Law Schools for Biglaw Jobs.” Take a look at the following data compiled from a tipster:

    “Whenever an undergrad asks me about choosing the right law school to get a Biglaw job in New York, I always say the same thing: “Go to a T14 law school — preferably Harvard, NYU, or Columbia for proximity’s sake — or go to a lower-tier school in New York and graduate in the top of your class.” It’s simply not true that, say, a St. John’s grad is locked out of Biglaw. The firms take the top folks from the local schools every year. It’s just that it’s a lot easier road to be an above-average NYU grad than a superstar at St. John’s.

    But one tipster has gone through and actually broken down how many students from each New York area school are landing at specific Biglaw firms. Here’s the methodology:

    I scoured the websites of Cravath, S&C, DPW, Skadden, STB, Cleary, PW, Debevoise, Latham, and K&E (Weil’s website made it impractical to include them), and saw how many associates they each currently employ from Brooklyn, Columbia, Cardozo, Fordham, Hofstra, NYLS, NYU, Pace, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. Johns. Since I was mainly interested in recent placement, I kept the list to associates only (no partners, counsel, etc). My goal was to see how successful each school has been at placing students at these top firms, and if you’re really that much better off paying more to go to a better school (spoiler alert: you are).”

    [Contains several charts for each Biglaw firm cited above]

    “In case you were wondering how that all totals up, we have that from our hard-working tipster too:

    Law School Associates
    Columbia 705
    NYU 553
    Fordham 152
    Brooklyn 72
    Cardozo 70
    St. John’s 45
    [NYLS] 38
    Rutgers 19
    Hofstra 13
    Seton Hall 13
    Pace 4”

    Of the 11 New York area law schools noted, the worst for associate placement in Biglaw firms were Hof$TTTra, $eTTon Haul, and Pace. The tipster did not even bother to look up numbers for Touro, CUNY, or SUNY. Also, Cornell, Syracuse, and Albany Law Sewer were left out of the search. Do you still want to take the plunge, waterhead?!?! Look at the insane tuition being charged at the Maurice A. Deane Sewer of Law at Hof$TTTra Univer$iTTTy! Yet, only a total 13 graduates from that toilet are associates at the 10 Biglaw firms researched by that contributor. That is beyond pathetic!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And yet, all law school tuition moves in lock-step and each toilet has tuition calibrated to 2 things:

      1) The same as HYS and;

      2 assumes that students across all law schools have the same chances at Biglaw which is simply not true, as Nando's post shows and obv. "You-Ass News" rankings - the Holy Grail for law school pedigree, which is all that really matters in this shit field - disproves as well.

      Oh.. and regarding my earlier analysis of debt and opportunity cost associated with Hofstra, remember this is starting debt at the end of the 3 years. It does not include compound interest after that nor any Tax Bomb associated with any form of repayment plan / loan forgiveness at the end.

      13 - a Baker's Dozen for Hofstra across many firms.

      Lemmings, your odds are simply beyond pathetic. And you can bet those folks were top of the class and/or solidly connected - unlike your dumb asses, btw..

      Delete
    2. Understand that most of us will not be at the top of any law school class. We might be good, but not everyone can be #1. A Toyota Avalon is a good, excellent car, but it is not a Maybach. Big Law takes the Maybachs and the rest of us good Avalon's are relegated to being a Solo, or a small firm that does not pay or offer a sustainable long term middle class path. Gub'mints are not hiring and when Boomers retire, their positions are eliminated.

      Delete
    3. Could it safely be said that Hofstra's 13 in biglaw come from about 5 graduating classes, that is, perhaps 2 per year?

      Delete
    4. Also left out of the search is Yale. Far though New Haven may seem, it is connected by commuter rail to Grand Central Station.

      Delete
  12. And finally (me again..) that breakdown means the following:

    Top 14 ?!?

    Not anymore..

    You want a decent job with better exit opportunities - or at least a shot at them - then it's T6 or don't go at all. It really is that simple.

    Don't say you weren't warned, etc.

    Fuck you.

    It's 10 years since the 2007 WSJ article and there is now a well-developed, established internet with literally thousands of articles on the law school scam.

    But I forget..

    You, the 23-yr. old "sophisticated consumer", know better than anonymous bitter "keyboard jockeys" and would rather listen to the Boomers:

    http://jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=115394

    2015 Campbell Graduate and I cant buy a job

    "campbellgrad (Sep 18, 2016 - 9:21 am)

    Honestly, I believed the hype. I was 20 years old when I started applying. I believed what I heard about their reputations (all from baby boomers who went to school in the 80s-90s).

    I was faced with real people saying Campbell is great, and keyboard warriors (very few at the time) ragging on the institution.

    I have now come to the conclusion the only honest think Campbell Law School can say in their favor is that they are not Charlotte Law School.

    I know I am not alone in this. The sad thing is when I see Campbell alums (recent) using the same BS line over and over again to make it seem like their practice is busy. They tell me this while they are typing away on a doc review project...."

    ReplyDelete
  13. Cardozo and Hofstra, both of which opened in the 1970s, are the spoiler schools. The oversupply of law graduates and outcry about their joblessness has resulted in hiring of the top of the class in these schools at good lawyer jobs.

    There are a limited number of lawyer jobs and a very limited number of full-time, permanent jobs for lawyers who have practiced more than 20 years. Effectively, by allowing these schools to open, a significant number of lawyer jobs have been taken away from the 50-something and 60-something elite law school grads and given to the 20-something, 30-something, and earlier 40-something year-old grads of these newer law schools.

    That is not to say the Hofstra grads will be able to work in significant numbers at age 55. Most of the successful, gainfully employed grads when they are younger will not have full-time permanent lawyer jobs through their 50s and 60s.

    There are just so many lawyer jobs, and by opening new law schools and putting the top of the class at these schools into the hirable category, the ABA is taking away jobs from someone else.

    The lack of disclosure of age-based employment for lawyers has made the scam a youth-heavy lawyer workforce. The Hofstras and Cardozos have based their success on forcing the 52 year old Harvard, Yale, Columbia or NYU grad out of full-time permanent work, only to be replaced by a 32-year old or 42-year old Hofstra grad with fewer jobs on his or her resume, because he or she has practiced law for fewer years.

    It is very bad in terms of finding a lawyer job to be over 50. It is like being a minority before the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This age-pyramidal lawyer
    workforce is fed by lack of disclosure of employment statistics and the opening of law schools like Hofstra and Cardozo where 40 years of the top whatever percent of the class getting lawyer jobs has simply shut out the age 50+ grads of top law schools.

    There is really not a social good in going to Harvard or Columbia and having only a 38% chance of being able to hold a full-time permanent lawyer job in the private sector.

    I don't know if 38% is the right number. That is a guess. But if you look at the pay on the jobs that 50-somehing and older Harvard and Columbia Law grads have, the medians and the 25th percentile are not going to be pretty.
    Part of the reason is that the Hofstras are in the mix.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hofstra grads most certainly are not replacing Yale, Columbia or NYU grads, don't be ridiculous.

      The Hofstra grads are lucky to get the scraps the elite grads refuse to touch.

      The elite grads are replaced by younger elite grads, of which there is no shortage either.

      The only thing youth heavy is probably doc review. Because nobody else would be desperate enough to do it.

      Delete
    2. I agree.

      The #1 grad in a given class year from Hofstra is not viewed as equivalent in any way to the #1 grad from Yale, Columbia, NYU, etc.

      When you see 13 Hofstra grads across 10 large Biglaw firms vs. hundreds from Columbia and NYU, there is no equivalence.

      Those 13 people were "one-off's". Plainly exceptions to the Law Hierarchy Rules. It helps the firms, of course, and supports the illusion of meritocracy in law when publications like US News are the Bible for law firm hiring.

      The toilets like Hofstra will eagerly point to these very lucky few as the Rule and claim their grads have chances they really do not have in reality.

      12:22 AM is entirely correct.

      The demand for non-elite law grads is negative. Elite grads are replaced by other elite grads and the closed circles, with very few exceptions, repeat themselves. Different worlds and tracks entirely. They rarely meet in law. Rarely. 13 is not a large number spread across 10 firms and over several years.

      The law school name on a resume determines to 99% certainty what types of opportunities one will have throughout their entire legal career.

      That's the way law works.

      Delete
  14. Professor Wu weighs in-favorite quote

    "We should be wary of those who would disguise their profit motive by suggesting they are promoting diversity."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/581fcf1ee4b044f827a78fa2

    ReplyDelete
  15. Attention anyone scoring below 165 on the LSAT (i.e. 90+% ). You are pre-ordained to fail the big law admission lottery. Even if you are top 10-15% at a formerly well respected regional law school (like William & Mary or Vanderbilt) you still only have a 1-6 shot at making partner. Bottom line, multiplying these two fractions, your chances of making a positive return on your law school tuition is about 2 1/2 %.

    You will have much better prospects going to nursing school, as today's WSJ article attests.

    ReplyDelete
  16. While not everyone can be a machinist-and even machinists make bad decision(one is putting a grandson through law school), it borders on the criminal to encourage everyone to attend law school when there are other stable careers available:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-07/boeing-s-retiring-boomers-underscore-u-s-manufacturing-plight?cmpid=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hofstra is a shit heap. And it still charges Yale prices. Disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
  18. http://law.hofstra.edu/about/index.html

    Here is the “About” page for this ABA-accredited trash can. Notice the overblown header, “We Prepare, Challenge and Inspire Our Students to Make a Difference in the World.” Enjoy the following drivel:

    “To the students, alumni, faculty and staff of the Maurice A. Deane School of Law at Hofstra University, the law is not just something to be studied — it is to be lived. It informs our careers, our lives and our interactions with fellow citizens. It is the means by which we make an impact in the world.

    Courts, law firms and employers recognize the significance of a Juris Doctor (J.D.) from Hofstra Law, or a degree from our joint J.D./M.B.A. and J.D./M.P.H. programs, because they know our graduates are renowned for their legal knowledge, preparedness and poise.

    Our curriculum evolves every year to address changes in the law and practice, as when we recently became one of the first law schools in the country to institute a required first-year course in transnational law. Our students have long been involved in clinics, fellowships, externships and pro bono opportunities that give them real attorney experience — practicing alongside veteran lawyers — before they’ve graduated. After embarking on their career of choice, lawyers still come to Hofstra Law to further their development with programs such as the Master of Laws (LL.M.) in American Legal Studies or Family Law.

    Hofstra Law is home to approximately 850 students, an alumni base of more than 11,000 members, 51 administrators and a distinguished full-time faculty of 46 full-time professors, 6 visiting professors and nearly 60 adjunct professors, including many scholars recognized as national and international experts in their field.

    The Maurice A. Deane School of Law is part of Hofstra University and is fully accredited by the Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar of the American Bar Association.”

    Yes, students incur back-breaking amounts of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for the privilege of “informing our interactions with our fellow citizens” and for “making an impact in the world.” Actually, people attend “professional school” in order to enter a secure and rewarding career, genius.

    Furthermore, for $ome rea$on, this page only includes the commode’s bar passage rates for July 2013, February 2014, and July 2014. That’s not out-of-date info, is it, lemming?!?! Also, the excrement pile mentions that it has 11,000 alumni. You can read the ATL data in my earlier comment on this post, to see that the 10 damn Biglaw firms in New York studied had a COMBINED TOTAL of 13 associates from Hof$TTTra. Keep in mind that the figure is spread out over years. Hell, some of those attorneys could have been hired 3-5 years ago. Look at results, not meaningless data, in making this important decision for YOUR future! Try not to be too much of moron.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hofstra is correct, the Law is "everything" and informs our lives, institutions, nation. Law School is a great education. The problem is simple, however. Demand for legal services and attorneys is down and there is not enough work for all 1.8 million attorneys. My attorney buddies and I are hurting for work. Jobs are scarce. Law School is a great education, like Art History, not a career path.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Art History worked great for Robert Hughes. Note: You are not Robert Hughes. It will not work well for people who aren't Robert Hughes.
      "The Shock of the New"
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ne7Udaetg&list=PLFtSvldL7Mh4ismj4BgH33pBR9hbtBkxz

      Delete
  20. If the ABA had any guts, it would close Hofstra Law School. It has poor bar passage rates, poor employment outcomes, a high cost of attendance and there is not enough demand for its lawyers to justify its existence. The higher ranked law schools in the New York area and in the northeast and DC produce enough lawyers to fill the demand for lawyers in the greater New York City area by a factor of several lawyers for each full-time permanent legal job.

    When you take into account longitudinal lawyer oversupply, and severe unemployment and underemployment, of older, more experienced lawyers from elite law schools like Harvard and Columbia, it is a crime to have Hofstra Law open. Hofstra Law spits out year after year of large classes of law graduates that the local economy cannot absorb without putting a graduate of a higher ranked school out of work. You can only fit so many lawyers into a limited job market.

    The catch is that a 32 year old from Hofstra Law is many times more marketable than a 55 year old from Harvard Law. That legalized age discrimination is a product of pumping out much too many law graduates by low ranked law schools that are allowed to continue to collect money from taxpayers with no justifiable demand for an additional 300 or so new lawyers every year from just one school in their market. It also a product of a legalized age discrimination and a very youth-heavy market for lawyers, with a much smaller group of older lawyers in full-time permanent legal jobs.

    The ABA should close Hofstra Law School now.

    ReplyDelete
  21. http://law.hofstra.edu/about/missionandhistory/index.html

    Courtesy of the dung heap's Mission & History page:

    "The mission of the Maurice A. Deane School of Law is to prepare, challenge and inspire our students to make a difference in the world while we advance important ideas through the legal academy, the profession and society — making an impact of our own.

    Since 1970, we have provided a comprehensive, contemporary law education to our students, helping them become skilled, informed and ethical attorneys. We have a history of making meaningful contributions to the local and national dialogues about pressing social issues. We insist on creating a place where students, faculty, judges, lawyers, scholars and professionals from a variety of disciplines can come together to broaden everyone’s perspectives and advance justice for all.

    Since our inception, we have believed in the value of an education steeped in legal theory and practical experience. We were one of the first schools in the country to adopt clinical education in our curriculum, and we have served for many years as the regional center for the National Institute for Trial Advocacy (NITA)."

    Yes, that NITA is a real powerhouse, huh?! By the way, notice on the left hand side of the screen that the pigs points out "More Than 200 Externship Opportunities." Who doesn't go to law school, for an "opportunity" to work for free?!?! In fact, when you consider that it takes tuition dollars to set up these positions, you are PAYING good money for the privilege. That makes great economic sense, Lemming.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I can see doing an unpaid externship while you are actually in school, and actually learning something valuable. After graduating, and actually doing real work for free?? Just to "get your foot in the door?" What other profession requires that? (Especially after going into six figure debt to get one's degree?)

    ReplyDelete

 
Web Analytics