Saturday, January 14, 2017

Limp Wrist Slap: US Department of Education Dings Five ABA-Accredited Trash Pits Over Their Weak-Ass Gainful Employment Outcomes


http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/department_of_education_flags_5_law_schools_debt-to-income_ratios_including

Five Toilets Get Flushed: On January 11, 2017, the ABA Journal published a Stephanie Francis Ward story that was headlined “Department of Education flags 5 law schools’ debt-to-income ratios, including 3 in Infilaw System.” Enjoy the following portion:

“Two for-profit law schools are not meeting the U.S. Department of Education’s gainful employment standard, which measures debt-to-earnings ratios, the agency reported Monday.

If Florida Coastal School of Law and Charleston School of Law fail the gainful employment standard again next year, they lose access to federal student aid, the National Law Journal reports.

The Infilaw System owns Florida Coastal. Two of its other law schools, Charlotte School of Law and Arizona Summit Law School, were given a “zone” rating by the Department of Education, which means the schools were close to not meeting gainful employment standards, and must pass the gainful employment standard in one of the next four years to stay in good standing.

Federal student aid for Charlotte School of Law students is already in jeopardy, after the department in December found that the school made “substantial misrepresentations” to current and prospective students regarding its compliance with ABA accreditation standards. This fall, the ABA placed the Charlotte School of Law on probation, but it remains an accredited law school. 

A Charlotte School of Law spokesperson told the ABA Journal on Jan. 10 that spring semester student loan proceeds will be disbursed. A Department of Education spokesperson would not comment on whether that was correct, but he disclosed that the agency was “in conversations” with the law school about students “getting an option to participate in a teach out for next semester. ” 

Western State College of Law, a California school owned by Education Management Corporation, also received a zone rating by the department.” [Emphasis mine]

Yes, InfiLaw has had one hell of a recent run, huh?!?! Still want to attend these festering stench pits, Lemming?! Do you believe that spending three years in a toilet is a wise “investment” in your future, Dumbass? Sadly, mental midgets and unemployed college grads will continue to take the TTTT plunge. 

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/01/2-law-schools-fail-governments-gainful-employment-test-3-more-on-chopping-block/?rf=1

Other Coverage: On January 12, 2017, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry labeled “2 Law Schools Fail Government’s Gain Employment Test, 3 More On Chopping Block.” That’s not 2 hard 4 U 2 understand, is it, prospective law student?! Take a look at this opening:

“In 2010, the Department of Education introduced a landmark initiative designed to keep students from being buried beneath mountains of debt after obtaining degrees that had otherwise proved to be useless when it came to securing meaningful employment. Schools that failed the Department’s gainful employment standard — a test that measures graduates’ debt-to-earnings ratios — would risk losing access to federal loan funding. Degree programs fail this test if a typical graduate’s loan payments exceed 20 percent of his discretionary income or 8 percent of his total earnings. 

These regulations took effect in July 2015, and earlier this week, the Department released its first gainful employment report, and while three law schools were notified that they were in danger of failing, two law schools failed outright. 

Which schools came up short? 

Both Florida Coastal School of Law and Charleston School of Law flunked the Department’s gainful employment test, meaning that if they fail again next year, they will lose access to the federal student loan program. Florida Coastal’s debt-to-earnings annual rate was 21.35 percent, and its debt-to-discretionary-income rate was 34.63 percent. Charleston’s debt-to-earnings annual rate was 20.42 percent, and its debt-to-discretionary-income rate was 31.7 percent. Arizona Summit Law School, Charlotte School of Law, and Western State College of Law received a “zone” rating, meaning that they came precariously close to failing the gainful employment test, and must pass at least once in the next four years to remain in the government’s good graces. 

(The Infilaw System owns Florida Coastal, Arizona Summit, Charlotte (which has already been denied access to federal student loans), and was once in talks to purchase Charleston before the deal was quashed thanks to student and faculty opposition.) 

Immediately after finding out that Florida Coastal had failed the government’s gainful employment test, Dean Scott DeVito sent a lengthy email to students, questioning the validity of the gainful employment rule in the first place, and letting them know that the administration had already appealed the results. Dean DeVito also notified students that not only had Florida Coastal been trying to lower its students’ debt loads and improve its admissions criteria, but also that the school had been working to become part of a “non-profit, major university,” and had been in discussions with potential partners for the past two years.” [Emphasis mine]

The fact that the three piles of excrement that entered the “zone” rating only need to pass the test one damn time in the next four years shows you how serious the Department of Education clowns takes their own “standards.” Also, did anyone else laugh when reading that Pig Scott DeVito went into damage control immediately upon receiving the news? Yes, that shows that he and the other swine at Florida Coa$TTTTal Sewer of Law care deeply about their victims/students!

Conclusion: In the final analysis, student loans are the lifeblood of the law school scam. The pigs are able to charge $45K or more in annual tuition because the student loan scheme enhances demand and the “ability to pay.” This is why even FOURTH TIER TRASH PITS, such as all five cesspools cited in this article, get away with setting outrageous cost of attendance. You can bet your ass that the bitches and hags will place blame on others, including “lazy graduates.” Plus, the ABA cockroaches will come to the aid of their member schools. Don’t expect these leeches to be removed from the government teet for long.

32 comments:

  1. Wasn't the Charleston a style of dance in the 1920s?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes. Here's the music, with a parody courtesy of Old Guy:

      http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.ca/2015/05/the-charleston-saga-embodiment-of-lucre.html

      ♪ Charleston, Charleston,
      Made in Carolina.
      Some sham, some scam,
      You'll take it up the vagina
      Down in Charleston, Charleston,
      Lord, how they can swindle!
      Ev'ry time they pull
      O'er your eyes the wool,
      Don't believe their bull:
      They've made pocketsful.
      Damn sham, flim-flam,
      Will be a back number;
      But at Charleston, yes, at Charleston,
      That scam school's surely a comer!
      Some time they'll bilk you one time,
      The scam school called Charleston,
      Made in South Carolin'. ♪

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5y0hSqO48U

      Delete
  2. Infilaw can just cash out, sell these shitters, and get out of the game, can't they?

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  3. Meanwhile, the sound of crickets chirping over at the ABA Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar....

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  4. Oh, indeed, DeVito, why shouldn't a graduate mind paying 30+% of discretionary income, and 20+% of gross income, year after year to reimburse their student loans? Go ahead and tell them how reasonable that is.

    So now InfiLaw is trying to sell Horrida Coastal to a "non-profit, major university". Even InfiLaw seems eager to get out of the law-school scam.

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  5. The sad thing is that cHARLOTee's backup "plan" was to transfer lemmings to FC SoL.

    Jumping from one sinking ship to another, perfect!

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  6. Fuck, a Charleston Chew from the 7-11 is more prestigious than a law degree from that shithole.

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  7. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingJanuary 15, 2017 at 5:44 AM

    These schools and all of their unranked ilk will attract students. Folks are desperate to escape retail hell. I was at a Hyvee the other day and the manager (assuming he is a college grad) was announcing a special on toilet paper for $9.99. Can you imagine a 40 plus year career hawking toilet paper? You can see the attraction of these schools. Be a law trained MAN or lady and imagine the possibilities to do justice and have a fabulous career making a difference. That's the pitch and it works. Like selling a Camaro on the promise of getting laid.

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  8. Off topic, but great news. The University of Washington Tacoma postponed a proposal to create a new law school.

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article126537324.html

    For all of those future law professors out there, working in big law and looking to give up their million dollar a year salary to educate future lawyers, don’t worry. Chancellor Pagano said a feasibility “study came back and said there is demand in the future. We’re right now not to that point where it would be in the best interest of everybody to take that major step forward.”

    For all those unemployed lawyers, struggling solos, document review attorneys, or those in “JD advantage” jobs working as tennis instructors or parole officers, it appears there is unmet demand in Tacoma! Bruce Kendall from the Economic Development Board for Tacoma-Pierce County revealed that the feasibility study “found that the South Sound region could provide jobs for 69 new attorneys a year.” Law professors advise unemployed grads to move to Nebraska. But according to Kendall, they should be moving to Washington!

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  9. Omar Khayyam said it best:

    "The Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it."

    ReplyDelete
  10. To the Third Tier Community,

    what exactly is the definition of so called shit law? Is trial law shit law? What is wrong with personal injury law? I understand the competition is stiff but PI law seems to be the most accessible law available for poor people because of the contingency fees. What is so great about Corporate law? I hear it is long hours and boring even thought the pay is good. Just wondering.

    A former wanna be lawyer

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    Replies
    1. 1. Solo Practice for $45,000 or less a year.
      2. Mill Firms: Insurance, Injury, Disability, Debt Collection, for shit pay and no Benefits.
      3. Small Firm, work on commission.
      4. Anything where your Student Loans are more than 20% of your pay.

      Delete
    2. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingJanuary 16, 2017 at 7:54 AM

      Seeing those billboards across Chicagoland advertising Traffic Ticket Defense for $49.00 and then having to explain to folks that it is like a car dealer advertising the one car on the lot without a radio or A/C. Nobody will buy that one, but will buy the one with Apple Car Play, Nav and leather. I charge a fair fee and then they hang up the phone and I never hear from them again.

      Delete
    3. The best situation in private practice is to have fewer clients (generally institutional, e.g. corporations, school districts, family trusts) that give you more business. These types of entities are easier to work with b/c they already have a certain degree of professionalism built in and generally understand they need to pay for the work attorneys do.

      Shit law tends to involve (trying) to get little bits of revenue from a lot of different people. This setup is tough for numerous reasons: 1. there are no shortage of people who essentially just want to "vent" to somebody about this or that gripe and they eat up a lot of time 2. many people have this idea that you will feel sorry for their situation and agree to work for peanuts 3. unrealistic expectations abound as to what can be accomplished through legal processes. 4. it's difficult to know the backgrounds of potential clients (mental problems, rage issues, financially insolvent) 5. there is an omnipresent overproduction of lawyers, so the fee trend has been constantly down for the last 8-10 years as more lemmings vie for a stagnant market.

      Those are just some of the downsides to being solo. Now, if you're just a mere associate or contract lawyer in shit law, the problems are even worse!

      Delete
    4. Allow me describe sh!tlaw. It's not so much the type of law, but the conditions under which that law is practiced. It is also, arguably, a state of mind.

      To wit: do you work in a storefront? Does your boss buy toner cartridges out the back of a "vendor's" 1993 Buick LeSabre? Does your boss not only not provide sufficient office supplies, he instead hands you an old screwdriver to pry apart and reuse those vel-o-bind/whatever presentation covers? Is your copy quality such that court personnel think you are a chimney sweep on the side? (Oh, that's right, in sh!tlaw you probably ARE working on the side some blue-collar menial task.) Did breakfast for you consist of a stop at White Castle? Does at least one of your shoes feature some type of duct tape? Is your suit of JC Penney quality?

      You get the picture.

      Delete
    5. From a former shitlawyer to another:

      JC Penney suits are a fucking staple of courtrooms in America.

      Here are some other examples of shitlaw features:

      Do you rock a Casio or Timex? Does at least one of your cars need to be unlocked or locked from the inside? Does lunch consist of a PB&J at your shitty little desk? Does the office furniture look like it come straight out of a 1985 Woolworth's catalog? Do you have to enter the courthouse in the same line as the criminals and other dregs of society? Do you have to chase down former clients for outstanding legal fees?

      Delete
    6. To me it means a work situation with no redeeming features. Some jobs (biglaw) feature stress and long hours but at least pay well. Other jobs (public defender, legal aid) don't pay much but usually involve better working conditions and the chance to do work that is personally meaningful. Shitlaw is the worst of all worlds--stress, bad hours, bad quality of life, and not enough income to really justify it all.

      Delete
    7. Pay no attention to the miserable morons above.

      A JD is a JD from Top 12 down to T4 schools (hint: we all use the same text books, attend the same lectures and likely sit for the same bar - torts is torts, am I right my friends)???

      An expensive JD provides you first class access to legal jobs that most people would beg for but don't qualify for.

      Its an opportunity to:

      - Defend the rights of others
      - Put away the bad guys, and clean the streets of society
      - File/draft interesting IP
      - Right the wrong for the little guy by getting him awarded money against big business
      - stop bad business practices via injunctions
      - access to credibility for public office, judges etc.
      - or go for the "golden handcuffs" via big law... this path sucks!

      !!and everything in between !!!

      Do not let these posters drag the intellectual pursuit of getting a legal education and practicing law tainted with the notion of shit law.

      You will be among the most educated members of society ( this is why non JD's are considered "laymen").

      But with your bar card in hand you can carve out nice opportunities to monetize your JD.

      And yes, most likely you will make over 1 million dollars over a life time and pay off your student loans. Just be smart about it.

      The right to practice law is a calling and noble opportunity. Think big picture.

      Delete
    8. Poor Team AAMPLE posting at 5:25 AM was having another manic episode this morning. At least he didn’t retell the story about getting arrested for prostitution and turning to an AAMPLE lawyer to represent him. Get back on your lithium. And ask your psychiatrist about taking an atypical antipsychotic so you can get back to reality during your manic episodes.

      According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis GDP by industry data, the legal services sector produced 1% less output in 2015 than in 1997. Output declined in 2005, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2014. By comparison, the finance sector produced 61% higher output in 2015 than in 1997.

      The legal industry is shrinking. It’s an objective fact. Law schools churn out more lawyers than the market demands. When you have more lawyers trying to compete in a shrinking market, you get broke, underemployed, and unemployed lawyers.

      Desperate lawyers become lingerie salespeople, parole officers, and pest control specialists. Solos turn to selling insurance to make ends meet. Legal employers, inundated with applicants, only hire lawyers from elite schools.

      All of that was discovered when someone actually tracked down what lawyers were doing: Merritt D., What Happened to the Class of 2010? Empirical Evidence of Structural Change in the Legal Profession. Mich St Law Review 2015; 1043.

      When lawyers are broke, underemployed, or unemployed, they tend to get depressed. Especially when their law school lied to them about employment outcomes and saddled them with $150,000 in non-dischargeable debt. Check out the consequences. A study found that almost 21% of lawyers screened positive for problematic drinking. But only about 12% of highly educated screened positive for the same measure. 28% of lawyers struggled with some degree of depression. But only about 7% of the US population suffer depression.

      You can read about the results here: Krill P, Johnson R, Albert L. The Prevalence of Substance Use and Other Mental Health Concerns Among American Attorneys. J Addict Med 2016; 10(1):46-52.

      Delete
    9. 525 AM: You are trolling, am I correct? if not, what is your major practice area, and about how many years in. Serious question. You sound way too cheery to be an actual attorney, but I'm willing to be wrong if proven otherwise.

      Delete
    10. Entering the courthouse with the other dregs of society? You were fooled in thinking that your education will somehow make you better than everyone else. Those moron classmates in your public schools have steady jobs in civil service while you toil in debt and lack meaningful employment. You are no better. And the other guy on this thread saying you will put away the bad guys? Yeah like the really bad bankers who wrecked the economy and got away with it because they are above the law. Yeah go get into 200k debt so you can have a slim opportunity to put away that petty shoplifter. You are a real credit with that law license.

      Delete
    11. I know it's hard to believe but I actually go back far enough that I remember the tail end of another era. Once Upon A Time a bar card actually meant something, and, yes, courthouse security waved you through and around the metal detectors, etc. You didn't stand in line with the civilians. That is long gone, and I have since left sh!tlaw.

      Delete
  11. It says something that only 5 shitholes were cited. It should be closer to 50.

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    Replies
    1. They don't want a panic.....everybody here knows the law is a scam, but the ABA wants to hold the (collapsing) line as long as it can try.

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    2. Since only about 50% of law grads are employed in JD required positions, a balancing of supply and demand suggests that half the law schools, e.g. 100 schools, be terminated from the student loan program...

      Delete
    3. Reminds me of the punch line of an old Russian joke (can't remember the joke):

      ...and wrap yourself in a sheet and walk slowly to the cemetery.

      Why walk slowly?

      So as not to create a panic....

      Delete
  12. http://www.postandcourier.com/news/charleston-school-of-law-lands-on-failing-list-for-high/article_34f85afa-d9cf-11e6-ba6b-27c6bb1e10d9.html

    On January 13, 2017, the Charleston Post and Courier publied a Diane Knich piece entitled “Charleston School of Law lands on “failing” list for high student loan debt.” Here is the full text of that story below:

    “The Charleston School of Law has been identified as failing on the U.S. Department of Education's “gainful employment list,” according to a story in The National Law Journal.

    Schools that land on the list have an extremely high student loan debt compared with graduates’ earnings. Most of them, including the Charleston School of Law, are for-profit schools.

    School[s] that end up on the list a second year in a row will lose access to federal student loans — a situation that makes it difficult for many students to enroll.

    Ed Bell, the school's president, couldn't be reached for comment Friday. But he sent an email about the situation to students and faculty members in which he said the department is applying new standards only to the country's five for-profit law schools.

    The Charleston School of Law is working to become a non-profit organization. If successful, those rules no longer will apply.

    He also pointed out that the Charleston law school has a student loan default rate of less than 1 percent and that the school already has appealed the matter and is taking the necessary steps to address the issue.”

    It’s funny how these “educators”/grimy politicians ALWAYS are unavailable for comment, when they receive news they don’t like. Yet, when their commode wins or places in a meaningless, regional moot court competition, the hags can’t wait to talk about this achievemenTTTT.

    Notice how Pig J. Edward Bell III places the blame on the U.S. Department of Education for his school being a piece of trash. Yes, it is always someone else’s fault for YOUR shortcomings, right, J. Edward?!?!

    http://www.belllegalgroup.com/j-edward-bell-iii.php

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  13. If Florida Coastal is on the probationary list, how can the ABA allow Charleston to have a teachout plan with Florida Coasta?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Charlotte Sewer of Law is about to be flushed! ABA Pig Barry Currier told the ABA Journal that CSL will file a teach out plan. Does the celebrity death rule apply to law schools? Now that Indiania Tech and Charlotte have been flushed, will a third soon follow?

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/teach_out_plan_for_charlotte_school_of_law_in_the_works_some_advise_student

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  15. http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2017/01/charlotte-and-florida-coastal-fail-does.html

    On January 10, 2017, "Old Guy" wiped his ass with Charleston Sewer of Law and InfiLaw, in an OTLSS entry labeled "Charleston and Florida Coastal fail DOE's standards for "gainful employment." Enjoy this opening:

    "The US Department of Education has identified more than 800 programs that fail its "gainful employment" rule by having a typical graduate's annual loan payment exceed 30% of discretionary income or 12% of total earnings:

    http://www.chronicle.com/article/Here-Are-the-Programs-That/238851

    Unsurprisingly, the usual suspects are various associate's degrees or "certificates" in fields to do with make-up, hairdressing, drawing, photography, and the performing arts. But the list also includes two professional degrees: the JD programs at the Charleston School of Law and the Florida Coastal School of Law ("Horrida Coastal").

    Charleston has been in dire financial straits; its very survival is in doubt. Horrida Coastal, like the recently disgraced Charlotte School of Law ("Harlotte"), is owned by the notorious InfiLaw company, which also operates the equally dreadful Arizona Summit Law School ("Arizona Scum Pit").

    Failure to meet the threshold for "gainful employment" can result in loss of eligibility for federally guaranteed student loans. That would sound the knell for institutions that depend on such funds—especially profit-seeking academies, such as Charleston and Horrida Coastal, most of whose students could not come up with many tens of thousands of dollars per year without a little help from Uncle Sugar. Already Harlotte has been kicked off the student-loan gravy train, for reasons that go well beyond a comparison of debt and earnings. Horrida Coastal may be the next to get the boot.

    That would leave InfiLaw with only one scam school, Arizona Scum Pit. With the dubious distinction of being one of only five out of 200+ schools (excluding the ones in Puerto Rico) to post LSAT scores worse than those of the other InfiLaw toilets, Arizona Scum Pit may not lag far behind. See these data on Arizona Scum Pit from Law School Transparency (LST):

    https://www.lstreports.com/schools/arizonasummit/jobs/

    A quarter of the class of 2015 was "Non-Employed"—not working in any capacity—ten months after graduation. Almost a third of the graduates reporting employment were in "Business & Industry", which could mean anything from CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation (not bloody likely) to stock clerk at a grocery store. Arizona Scum Pit reports no data on salaries, but LST estimates that someone relying wholly on loans will owe a cool quarter of a million dollars at the time when payments begin. Almost a third of the class pays full price, and the great majority get small discounts at best."

    Still want to take the TTTT plunge, Dumbass?!?! You would be better off sticking a fork in an electric socket. Hell, you have better odds of success if you took your life savings, cashed them out, and bet it all on black at a casino. At least then, you won’t be pissing away three years of your life – or taking on outrageous sums of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt.

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  16. Great news! The Charlotte Business Journal is reporting that the Department of Education has not budged on its previous position regarding Charlotte Law School’s eligibility for Federal student loans. The DOE told Charlotte to partner with another ABA accredited law school to conduct a teach out of current students. U.S. Under Secretary of Education Ted Mitchell said “the Department’s goal in these discussions has been to maximize the flexibility and options for current CSL students, while adhering to its position that CSL’s shortcomings make it no longer eligible to participate in the Federal Student Aid programs.” CSL has rejected the DOE’s offer. Dean Chidi Ogene is in hiding and was not available for comment.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/01/18/ed-dept-no-federal-funds-for-current-or-future.html

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  17. http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/which-profit-law-schools-failed-doe%E2%80%99s-gainful-employment-standard

    Today, the NaTTTional Juri$TTT published a Tyler Roberts piece entitled "Which for-profit law schools failed DOE’s gainful employment standard?" Look at this opening:

    "Two for-profit law schools — Florida Coastal School of Law and Charleston School of Law — flat out flunked the Department of Education’s gainful employment standard.

    Three more are in danger of failing.

    If these law schools cannot improve post-graduation employment results in coming years, the DOE says students could lose access to federal financial aid — and the schools could be forced to close.

    The DOE introduced the gainful employment standard in 2010 in an attempt to strengthen the federal student aid program and protect students from misleading recruitment practices of for-profit education institutions, which have graduates with deteriorating employment prospects. This is the first year that the DOE’s findings have been made available, and some schools are challenging the legitimacy of the findings.

    But, the standard could very well be on the chopping block.

    The for-profit college industry is hopeful that the new presidential administration will scrap the gainful employment standard. (After all, President-elect Trump was the former commander and chief of the embattled Trump University).



    When Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) asked the nominee for Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos, during her confirmation hearing whether the new administration would overturn the regulation, DeVos stated the administration “will review that rule.”

    But, for now, to meet the standard, an education program must lead to a degree at a non-profit or public institution, or the program must otherwise prepare students for “gainful employment in a recognized occupation.”

    Watch for these cesspits to shower campaign cash, in order to influence/scrap the new rules. How fitting, huh?!

    ReplyDelete

 
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