Monday, February 6, 2017

Seton Hall University School of Law Has Experienced a 56 Percent Drop in Number of Applications, Since 2009


http://www.nj.com/education/2017/02/seton_hall_law_school_qa.html

Power Flush: On February 1, 2017, NJ Advance Media published a Kelly Heyboer article entitled “As law school applications fall nationwide, Seton Hall Law faces 'new normal.'” Take a look at this opening:

“It's a tough time to be a law school dean. 

Nationwide, applications to law schools have fallen about 40 percent in what many view as a crisis in legal education. 

The downturn in the economy, a [scarcity] of legal jobs and high law school tuition made many students rethink the idea of spending years training to become a lawyer. Many law schools have had to lay off staff and shrink the size of their incoming classes to stay afloat. 

Kathleen Boozang, a veteran professor at Seton Hall School of Law in Newark,took over as dean of New Jersey's only private law school in 2015 just as the institution was making changes to compensate for declining applications. 

Seton Hall Law still had more applications than available seats. But, school officials decided to shrink the incoming class size so the institution could keep up its standards and admit the same quality of students as before. 

After 18 months on the job, Boozang told NJ Advance Media that Seton Hall Law is bouncing back with new programs and a renewed mission.

The entire law school field has been struggling. Seton Hall Law's applications dropped from 3,666 in 2009 to 1,609 last year. How is the school doing?

We're doing well. But, you're exactly right. Applications have declined nationally 40 to 45 percent since 2008 and I think a little bit more than that in the New York metropolitan area. So, while every law school dean is hoping that things will improve as soon as possible, I don't think I'm counting on the market to ever go back to its heyday. The legal market is changing. It's being impacted by technology and the global economy. But there are also new opportunities as well that Seton Hall Law is trying to take advantage of.” [Emphasis mine]

Cockroach Kathleen Boozang answered that question with the corporatese and spin of a White House press secretary or senator’s staff. You bastards did not “voluntarily decide” to shrink your incoming class sizes. Your toilet saw a HUGE drop in applicants, and you responded accordingly. That is the equvalent of a guy “choosing” to not date gorgeous women who have no interest – at all – in his ass.

http://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/applications-law-school-declined-recent-years/

Other Coverage: On February 3, 2017, NJTV News featured a piece from correspondent Erin Delmore, under the headline “Applications for Law School Have Declined in Recent Years.” Check out this segment:

“Consider it a hangover from the Great Recession: applications to law schools nationwide are down.

“Applications have declined 40 to 45 percent. In the New York metropolitian area, I would say it’s been a little bit more of a decline,” said Seton Hall Law School Dean Kathleen Boozang. Legal professionals say it’s a reflection of client need, which just hasn’t rebounded in recent years. 

“I think generally the demand for legal services is down, which means that the demand for lawyers is down, which means that generally applications are going to be down. And I think that’s just the cycle that we’re in,” said Joseph Boccassini, a managing partner at McCarter & English. 

In 2009, Seton Hall Law School took in 3,666 applications. Last year there were 2,000 fewer. The school responded by shrinking its incoming class size. 

“We made a policy decision to become a smaller law school,” explained Boozang. “We used to be one of the largest law schools in the country and we decided looking into the future that having large JD classes was not the path to take going forward.” 

Boozang says admitting a smaller incoming class allowed the school to keep up its caliber of students. And the trend holds, whether by choice or force. Enrollment at law schools nationwide is down 20 percent over the last seven years. Perhaps not surprising, given the price tag, which can exceed $50,000 a year.” [Emphasis mine]

You’re welcome, bitches! Now, let’s see if you pigs did indeed maintain the “calibur” of students/willing rape victims.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/setonhall/admissions/

By The Numbers: According to this chart by Law School Transparency, the bitches and hags at $eTTon Haul Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law have actually lowered admi$$ion$ “standards” – just to up keep enrollment. And first year class size still went from 358 in 2010 to 149 in 2016!

For the entering first year class of 2010, 25th percentile LSAT was 155; 50th percentile LSAT stood at 159; and the 75th percentile LSAT score was 161. Corresponding Fall 2016 entering class figures were 153, 156, and 159, respectively. Those are precipitous drops. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

Conclusion: While it may tougher now to be a law school dean, that pales in comparison to the toll on the students and recent graduates who have accumulated $140K+ in additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE – for a garbage law degree. By the way, $eTTon Haul Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law is rated by US “News” & World Report as the co-65th greatest, most remarkable, and amazing law school in the entire damn country. What a prestigious in$TTiTTuTTion, huh?!?! It only shares this honor with six other ABA-accredited commodes. Yes, I’m sure Biglaw firms wet their pants at the chance to hire a significant portion of each graduating class, right?!

46 comments:

  1. The “dean” said “our graduating classes are at virtually full employment. The market is getting stronger. The New York law firms are definitely expanding the size of their summer programs and they increased salaries...The other thing I see is more people coming to law school to go into business or entrepreneurship or to work on Wall Street. So we’re very aware and think it’s a wonderful opportunity for us to look at legal education as a preparation for business...You have the entirely new fields of compliance, enterprise risk management, privacy officers and cyber security officers.”

    So it’s never been a better time to get a JD. Law firms, Wall Street, and corporations looking for compliance officers desperately want to hire JDs! If a law “professor” was ever laid off from a school, we can expect that they wouldn’t complain much because they would just pursue any one of those tremendous opportunities. In fact, the first call a laid off law “professor” would make would be to one of their former students working in one of these prestigious positions. Because all you have to do is network to get a job.

    Well apparently the legal market is not so hot...David Frakt writes on The Faculty Lounge that several laid off Charlotte Law Sewer faculty are preparing to sue the school.

    Seton Hall troll, I look forward to your defense of this toilet. Don’t forget to mention how quickly you can pay back your student loans doing ticket defense for $49.00.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, and graduates of law skules are pursuing such exciting fields as extermination and retail sales of women's underwear. Their legal education must make for wonderful preparation for that sort of "business".

      What's this about lawsuits from professors sacked from Harlotte? Are they alleging breach of contract?

      Delete
  2. That's the power of the $1,000,000.00 JD-premium, biyotches!!!! A 56% decline in applicants!

    Hmm, hey, waitaminute...

    Could it be that the students are a tad bit, oh, I don't know, skeptical of the Law School Cartel at this juncture...???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The 56% decline in applicants turns it into a two-million-dollar degree.

      Delete
  3. The ABA House of Delegates did not approve the new 75% bar passage standard.

    http://abovethelaw.com/2017/02/first-monday-musings-by-dean-vik-amar-tightening-bar-pass-standards-and-the-california-problem/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What did you expect from the ABA shitlings?

      Delete
    2. Oh no. I'm so surprised........

      Delete
  4. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingFebruary 6, 2017 at 2:20 PM

    When one drives past those Chicago billboards shilling traffic ticket defense for $49.00* in a Buick LeSabre, I am guessing it would have a chilling effect on law as a career. If I saw those during the 80s, I would certainly start asking questions. How can one make a living like that?

    ReplyDelete
  5. This school is a Tier 1 School and should be respected. A great school that provides opportunities for Non traditional types to attend night school to get their JD. They even have an alternative admissions program like AAMPLE.

    Decreasing class size was the only move to make to ensure the program integrity. Grads will not be unemployed after having a name brand JD from this school...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are a fucking idiot. Even if you're being generous and use USNews classification of roughly 50 schools to each tier, 65 makes it second tier. Those of us with functioning brain stems (you're excluded) know that 65th equals foul shit.

      Delete
    2. "This school is a Tier 1 School and should be respected." Yeah, they are smart enough to reject the weak ass applicants applying to the school to prop up the numbers reported to US "News." Then they let those students transfer from Charleston and Thomas Jefferson after the 1L year. Way to go on achieving a Tier 1 75.6% pass rate on the New Jersey bar last July.

      "A great school that provides opportunities..." You have the opportunity to attend 1L year free of charge. Until they terminate your scholarship through section stacking. Only 16% of first years suffered this fate.

      "Grads will not be unemployed..." 4% of grads from the class of 2015 were unemployed 9 months after graduation. 4% worked in short term jobs. There were two desperate solos. 52% of the class worked in temporary state judicial clerkships. Do you mean to say, "grads will not be unemployed if they are willing to go solo, take short term/part time jobs, or work as a clerk at the local traffic court..."

      Delete
  6. The latest stats from our good friends at the LSAC:

    "As of 1/27/17, there are 189,027 applications submitted by 28,643 applicants for the 2017–2018 academic year. Applicants are down 2.5% and applications are down 1.0% from 2016–2017.

    Last year at this time, we had 52% of the preliminary final applicant count."

    Perhaps the soon to be unemployed law profs can join the Charlotte law students at the law school food bank. Think of it as a form of experiential learning.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Nando, you make people prove that they aren't robots before they can publish a comment here. Why don't you make them prove that they're not assholes too?

    ReplyDelete
  8. http://www.thesetonian.com/2016/12/07/seton-hall-and-iona-join-forces-for-law-students/

    Back on December 7, 2016, the Setonian posted a Thomas Schwartz entry labeled "Seton Hall and Iona join forces for law students." Look at this excrement flow:

    "A joint admission program established for pre-law and law students attending Seton Hall and Iona College has been created in order to enhance recruitment for both institutions.

    Kathleen Boozang is the dean of the Seton Hall University School of Law and a professor of law, while Gisele Joachim is dean of Enrollment Management of the Law School. In an email interview, both said that Iona College, a Catholic university located in New Rochelle, N.Y., suits the mutual desires of the respective universities to connect with other Catholic institutions, making it easier for students to attend law school.

    “Many New Jersey students who attend these colleges will be looking to return to their home state to attend law school,” Boozang and Joachim said. “Given our common Catholic identity and mission [with Iona College], Seton Hall Law is a great fit for students who attend Catholic undergraduate institutions.”

    Dr. Michael Jordan, associate vice president of Academic Affairs and an associate professor of philosophy at Iona College, said, via email, he believes the initiative will strengthen the rigor and form a positive symbiotic relationship between both universities.

    “Both universities benefit by having an attractive program that can be used to recruit exceptional students,” Jordan said. “As much as this is a benefit to both institutions, the students themselves are the greatest beneficiaries.”

    Yes, of course the students will be the biggest beneficiaries of this garbage union! Who else would benefit more from this arrangement?!?!

    http://www.iona.edu/Student-Life/Student-Financial-Services/Student-Accounts/Tuition-and-Fee-Schedule.aspx

    As you can see from the tuition and fee schedule, full-time tuition at Iona College will amount to $35,482 – for the 2017-2018 school year. Does anyone consider this an elite undergraduate institution?!?! Hell, full-time tuition at Harvard College is $43,280, for 2016-2017.

    https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance

    Apparently, $eTTon Haul Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law is starting to piece together some partnerships, in order to help compensate for lagging applications and declining enrollment. This should increase their incoming LSAT and UGPA numbers too, correct?!

    http://law.shu.edu/financial-aid/cost-of-attendance.cfm

    Now look at the Cost of Attendance page for SHU Sewer of Law. Full-time tuition – for 2016-2017 – is $51,182. Fees add another $840 to the price tag. Then again, part-time idiots will “only” be charged $38,386, for the current academic year.

    But the students will be the ones who benefit the most from this partnership? I guess Orwell should have added that “Debt is Wealth” to the famous slogans used in 1984: “War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Élite? Hell, I've never even heard of Iona College.

      The part-time rate at Shittin' Hole is no bargain relative to the full-time rate: it merely reflects the smaller number of credits in the part-time program.

      Why should anyone care about the religious affiliation of Iona and Shittin' Hole? It's simply stupid to elect a university on the grounds that it panders to your preferred brand of mythology. Go to church if you must, but don't sign up for an overpriced scam school on religious grounds.

      Delete
    2. Calling Iona College a "university" is a laugh. Even SH isn't a true research university. Neither institution produces any research of note.

      Delete
  9. ShiTT'in Hole School of Law. New Jersey is a dump. Why anyone would want to study law in Newark is beyond me.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingFebruary 7, 2017 at 5:55 AM

    Simple answer. The legal market is grotesquely oversaturated. Practices are down 50% or more. There is no enough work to go around for Solos and small firms which are the bulk of the profession. With T-Rump's hiring freeze and local budged issues, lawyers are not in demand. SIMPLE.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Nando, recall that back in 2009, Seton Hall was claiming top tier salaries for graduates who went into NON-legal fields. I wish I had a screenshot of their old career services page, but this is from my blog:

    "For instance, Seton Hall has the audacity to actually claim that students who work in NON-legal fields make at least an average of over $75k a year (Class of 2007). Apparently, the class of 2008 did even better with those entering the business world making a median starting salary of $125k a year."

    http://esqnever.blogspot.com/2009/12/law-is-for-losers.html

    If you could land six figures easily by just going into "business" after a tour at this august institution, it's a wonder why applications just dried up.

    Now that law schools are under greater scrutiny, SH no longer posts salary data, but take a look at the employment stats per their own admission: http://law.shu.edu/Admissions/outcomes.cfm

    LOL - 52% go into judicial clerkships (most of which are one year stints in traffic court) and 12% work in "business". There are no "business" roles that require an expensive JD. Nearly, 2/3rds of their grads are signing off on traffic citations or working in jobs that have nothing to do with the law. In fact, only 27% of graduates actually practice law - not even a third!

    I'd love to see "Million Dollar Baby" Scamkovic spin this one!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jesus, $75k per year ten years ago for working OUTSIDE law? Sounds pretty damned unlikely to me.

      Six or seven years ago, scores of law schools claimed a median salary of $160k. I never believed that lie.

      What exactly is one supposed to do after a one-year stint as a clerk in traffic court? Is there any job for which that sort of experience matters?

      Delete
    2. Doh! That's kind of a no-brainer: take the first Greyhound bus to Chicago and you will be up to your ears in traffic summons defense work. All you need to do is price yourself @ $48.88 per case and you will be stealing all those lawyers overcharging @ $49.99. Imagine the volume.

      Delete
    3. Why does a traffic court even need a clerkship? I thought these kinds of arrangements on the state level were superior or state court only.

      Delete
    4. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingFebruary 8, 2017 at 8:39 PM

      Excuse me son at 12:06. You are providing false information like our glorious leader. It is NOT $49.99 for traffic ticket defense. It is $49.00. Can't you read?

      Delete
    5. Double Doh! thanks for the correction...but what about a graduate from a "top 50" law school, Couldn't a gunner from, say, Temple or UF Gainesville get in there and earn that extra .99 as a premium due to the prestige?

      Delete
  12. When I applied to law school some years ago I got tons of material from this place. And I live 700 miles from New Jersey. The name "Shittin Hall" is appropriate.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I made it "Shittin' Hole", but "Shittin' Hall" isn't bad.

      Delete
  13. Decided, my ass! They probably couldn't have maintained their class size if they had admitted every last applicant.

    Besides, they deserve no praise for maintaining their already low standards, which in any event, as Nando pointed out, they haven't been doing.

    ReplyDelete
  14. These rankings are BS. I knew people who went there and the standards were pretty high at least back in the 90s to do well in classes. Rankings are about economic privilege and who your parents are and not necessarily the school you go to.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The Charlotte Law School Alumni Association wrote a lengthy letter to “Dean” Conison and “President” Ogene calling for their resignations. Notice that they raise the same issues that the law school reform movement has raised over the past several years.

    The Alumni Association wrote that they raised “concerns with falling admission standards, increasing class sizes, decreasing bar passage rates, and dismal employment statistics...our concerns were ignored or discounted while class sizes increased, admission standards decreased, bar passage rates plummeted, and tuition soared.” The actions of the administration have “caused irreparable harm to its students, faculty, and alumni.” The Alumni Association “remain dismayed and distraught by the daily revelations of misrepresentations, mistrust, mismanagement, concealment, and lack of transparency that defines an administration and consortium that is motivated first by profit and not the best interests of its students, faculty, and alumni.”

    http://abovethelaw.com/2017/02/charlotte-alumni-demand-resignations-of-law-school-leadership/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why bother to call for their resignations now? Harlotte probably won't survive past this semester.

      As for the complaint about "an administration and consortium that is [sic] motivated first by profit and not the best interests of its students, faculty, and alumni", it exudes naïveté. Of course a profit-seeking corporation is concerned primarily about profit, not about students and so on. Grow up, people! What the hell do you expect?

      Delete
  16. Looks like Charlotte has given up combating negative comments on Wikipedia:

    "In January 2017 the school started a food bank and go fund me to help students who can not afford housing and groceries. Meanwhile administration continues to live off of money from overcharging unqualified students. Many students are using Mecklenburg county services and crisis assistance to maintain housing while the school offered them a laughable loan in the amount of a mere 1,000."

    ReplyDelete
  17. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/02/after-58-enrollment-decline-and-46-faculty-reduction-through-voluntary-buyouts-seton-hall-adjusts-to.html

    On February 2, 2017, Paul Caron covered this developmenTT, in an entry entitled "After 58% Enrollment Decline And 46% Faculty Reduction Through Voluntary Buyouts, Seton Hall Law School Adjusts To 'New Normal'." To the Comments section:

    Contributor "Unemployed Northeastern" launched this stiff uppercut to the law school pigs' snout on February 2, 2017 at 7:27:30 am:

    "Uh oh, looks like the Seton Hall Law Dean believes that there is structural change in the legal profession."

    User "TS" followed up with this jab on February 2, 2017 1:30:28 pm:

    In what world is "maintaining our admissions criteria" dropping 3 pts on the LSAT (from 159 to 156 at the median)? Unless of course our admissions criteria is "admitting anything with a pulse and a statutory entitlement to federal loan dollars."

    As you can see, the toilet known as $eTTon Haul Univer$iTTy SOL has LOWERED its admissions criteria - in response to the lower numbers of applications! That does not square with Pig Boozang's claim that the trash pit chose to "keep up its caliber of students." In the end, it is ALL about getting their filthy hooves on bags of federal student loan money. You, the pupil, are a mere mean$ to an end. That helps explain why they don't give a damn whether you land a legal job or end up working at JC Penney.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Seton Hall is a great school with many options after graduation. Has the entrance standards fallen, yes, but so have most law schools during these challenging times.

    Do they have a part time program, which they can funnel low lsat takers into without having these students reflect upon the reported lsat numbers to the ABA, yes, but so do other law schools.

    You cant put this school in the same league as others, as its ahead of about 100+ other law schools as far as rankings and academic excellence is concerned.

    As the market rebounds grads are getting increased legal opportunities.
    And partnering up with a local feeder college is a key strategic move.

    Tuition may be a little high, but lets face it, in order to enter any professional field, its "Pay to Play",
    so the cost of the Seton Hall education is well worth it.

    Even with the tuition price point it will never run into any serious problems like the other T4 schools.
    It just makes attending this school a sound decision and decent investment of your time and money.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sad to see AAMPLE troll abandon Infilaw for SH-but he's still spouting nonsense. Not enough time to highlight all the stupidity, but this is the best
      "As the market rebounds grads are getting increased legal opportunities."
      Not a single word in that sentence is supported by any facts; there has been no market rebound at all. So why, 714, do you spout such a collection of untruths that can only damage the gullible? What makes you tick? Why are you doing this? In the words of Daffy Duck, who is clearly the brains behind your operation, it's despicable.

      Delete
    2. “As the market rebounds grads are getting increased legal opportunities.”

      Since 2000, the US economy has grown 31%

      For the most part, industries saw double digit growth:
      -Manufacturing grew 19%
      -Retail trade grew 24%
      -Transportation grew 17%
      -Finance and insurance grew 31%
      -Real estate and rental and leasing grew 41%
      -Health care and social assistance grew 49%

      Some segments of the economy saw substantial growth:

      -Oil and gas extraction grew 138%
      -Computer systems design and related services grew 158%
      -Computer and electronic manufacturing grew 222%
      -Data processing, internet publishing, and other information services grew 372%.

      Some industries have contracted over the last 15 years.
      -Mining, except oil and gas declined 20%
      -Construction declined 19%

      The legal industry declined 10% since 2000. During that period, the number of licensed attorneys increased 27%.

      All of this data is from the BEA. Deciding whether or not to attend law school is not a difficult decision. The legal profession is in decline. Yet law schools like Seton Hall continue to churn out more unemployed grads every year. There is no reason to pay lazy pigs $100,000+ in tuition to learn skills that are not valued in this growing economy. Then again, the smart people get this and avoid law school. The idiots like 7:14 AM are the ones who continue to enroll.

      Delete
    3. Seton Hall is just one of many mediocre law schools offering similarly mediocre outcomes for most of its grads.

      Kids, think hard about whether you really want to practice law as a solo or in a sh!tlaw shop, because that is where you will be destined to go unless you are connected or are in the top 5% or so of this school's 1st year class.

      No matter what anyone says here, law is a PRESTIGE-based profession and where you go to school, for most students, matters a whole lot. Choose carefully whether to attend Seton Hall and its ilk.

      Delete
  19. I imagine Seton Hall might still be OK for kids of millionaires and folks with a shit ton of political connections. A well-to-do grad student might find the ambiance of downtown Newark beneath her or his standards, but it probably beats having to go to Brooklyn or Hofstra.

    Anyone having to borrow money to attend this school, though, is setting her or himself up for major, major failure.

    Law is for rich and connected people. Don't find this out the hard way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Even Cooley is OK for kids of millionaires and folks with a shit-ton of political connections. The scions of the great and the good never need to worry.

      Delete
  20. http://www.jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=125024

    On February 8, 2017, at 10:09 am, JDU contributor “6figuremistake” started a thread labeled Paging L4L: Seton Hall Spins Declining Applications.” Here is the original post:

    “http://www.nj.com/education/2017/02/seton_hall_law_school_qa.html

    The new dean has an odd definition of "doing well":

    "We're doing well. But, you're exactly right. Applications have declined nationally 40 to 45 percent since 2008 and I think a little bit more than that in the New York metropolitan area."

    Of course, she probably would also assert that her graduates are doing well when Seton Hall's employment numbers look about as abysmal at their application numbers.

    According to the ABA employment data (http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/), for 2015 Seton Hall listed 185 of 194 graduates being employed in some capacity after 10 months (itself kind of a sad figure), but...

    100 of the 185 were employed as state or local law clerks! Given that only one (yes, one) person was employed as a federal clerk, we can be pretty sure no more than a handful of the graduates landed state supreme court clerkships or similar roles. In fact, NJ is notorious for their one year clerkships (particularly in traffic court), so after one year, plenty of the grads will be right back where they started.

    The next largest cohort are the 22 students who ended up in "business" AKA jobs that don't require a law degree. Only 17 students ended up in BigLaw (100+ attorney firms) - assuming this doesn't count temp doc reviewers.

    Maybe a bunch of students just wanted to help the trodden and decided not to pursue a lucrative career in private practice? Not according to these numbers; just one lone soul went into public interest law. Only eight found roles in the government - which I assume includes DA's and PD's.

    Scam on, scammers.”

    Of course, the pigs are spinning this development. Sadly, cretins and special snowflake idiots will continue to enroll in this grossly overpriced trash can. Some will even leave decent-paying jobs to take the plunge, because in their minds being an attorney means attaining some level of “prestige.” The law school swine feast on the corpses of these lemmings.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Later, poster “williamdrayton” provided this response in the JDU thread above, on February 8, 2017 4:46 pm:

    “thanks to psusurf and sjlawyer for setting the record straight on the so-called "traffic court" clerkships in New Jersey - there is no such thing - all clerkships are at the county Superior court, Appellate Division and Superior Court.

    having said that, New Jersey employers still have a major fetish for judicial clerks. just look at the job postings for proof (you almost never see this requirement/preference in Pennsylvania or New York job postings).

    my perspective is purely anecdotal but my impression is that the Superior Court clerkships are no longer the automatic gold ticket they might have been 15-20 years ago. there are simply too many clerks to absorb into the entry level market each year. the political connections are helpful but in many localities it's simply a numbers game. Moreover, the judge is only likely to be able to help you in his county or adjacent counties. a firm in Bergen County may not give a rip that you clerked for a judge down in Mercer County that they never heard of .

    by the way - New Jersey really only needs one law school - close down SHU and do a real merger of Rutgers Camden and Rutgers Newark into one campus in New Brunswick. the market simply can't support the number of grads - especially given the local competition from the law schools in Philadelphia and NYC.”

    This should help inform those still considering $eTTon Haul Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law, as a viable option. Waterheads, such as the SHU troll, will not be persuaded. However, that is by choice. Some prefer to remain willfully ignorant. The fact remains that attending such a toilet is a piss poor “investment” – for the student.

    ReplyDelete
  22. This is just more dog shit. So, straight off, half the class is boned. The top of the class doesn't need crappy clerkships. The Connecteds had good, solid jobs lined up before ever enrolling, etc. and probably can't get hurt on the debt angle either.

    Half the Muttonheads, in other words, will be left out in the cold to scramble for non-existent jobs which, even if said jobs did exist, they can't get because it's likely their GPA/class rank isn't "competitive" enough.

    Even so, the other half has a "job" which will only last 1 year and then, as always with law, a certain percentage will fall out between the cracks - I'm guessing more then half of them easily - when they are forced back into the Real World private sector legal job market.

    Yup, sure sounds like law.

    And the majority of these people will have debt and will experience a lifetime of employment uncertainty and uncertain earnings.

    Meanwhile, the school got paid in-full, up front. $50,000 x 3 (excluding COL) for a shithole 4th tier nothing degree in a tiny state that can't possibly support the number of legal graduates pumped out every year. And, it's a very high COL state, etc.

    Just because all schools are priced like Harvard doesn't mean the outcomes are anywhere near similar.

    Keep playing a rigged game, assholes. You're *bound* to win in the end, right??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Competitive GPA and class rank aren't good enough. My GPA and class rank were about as high as they could go, but I couldn't even get an interview, let alone a job (other than a federal clerkship).

      Connections trump excellence seven days a week.

      Delete
  23. Law schools are irrelevant, a recorded Netflix law school degree program could be offered cheaply for $9 a month. Why is this not being done? Why hasn't technology replaced expensive law professors and administrators at non-prestigious schools? The cost/benefit would be huge for the non-elite graduates.

    ReplyDelete
  24. @7:14 is just providing a fair and balanced perspective. SH grads do not end up unemployed.

    There are those who will have a job lined up even before setting foot in a law school via connections. But for the other law grads at least SH gives them a fighting chance at a decent legal career.

    And as far as the debt goes, let's stop pretending like there are no reasonable re-payment programs out there. IBR does exist to provide relief for the federal backed loans.

    Trump wants to reduce the repayment time from 20/25 years to only 15 years until forgiveness. So things are looking up.

    The legal field is shrinking but that doesn't mean you should sit on the side line and miss an opportunity to compete and have a decent legal career.

    Even if big law is off the table, competition is steep, and it's harder
    to get your foot in the door you have to remember one thing W. Bush taught
    us:

    Even in uncertain, turbulent, economic times there are still opportunities to be had and someone is profiting somewhere. Even now there are law grads thriving in this new / changed legal environment. You just need to find the courage to get your slice of the pie. I promise, the sky is not going to fall.




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    Replies
    1. Go fuck yourself. It's just this kind of unrealistic "YOU CAN DO WHATEVET YOU WANT!!!" dog shit that gets people in severe debt.

      Here's some actual good advice, unlike the above nonsense: learn a skill that's in demand and get good at it. It's true that there are legal jobs out there, but this field absolutely can't support at least 2/3rds of the accredited law schools in existence. If you really want to do well, don't go to a poor or middling law school and hope for the best. When even the good ones are having serious problems, what kind of hope is there?

      Delete
    2. Face it, 12:53, you're mean-spirited troll who only wants to ruin lives. You can't back up any of your pap with facts-it's all Jimny Crickett nonsense-except lives get ruined. Seriously what makes you tick? Everything you print is nonsense, and if the gullible listen to you, their lives are financially ruined. You've got no facts and no sense, so please just go away.

      Delete

 
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