Sunday, March 5, 2017

TTTT Signs of Desperation: Arizona Summit Law Sewer Shells Out $36,000 Stipend to Induce Individual Graduates to Delay Taking the Bar Exam


http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/will_delaying_the_exam_adding_training_help_arizona_summit_students_pass_th/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email

Paying Grads to Delay: On February 27, 2017, the ABA Journal featured a Stephanie Francis Ward piece entitled “Will delaying the exam, adding training help Arizona Summit students pass the bar.” Check out this meaty opening:

“A year ago, Kelly Blake was stressed out. The Arizona Summit School of Law graduate was studying for the state bar and suspected that her chance at passing was about 50 percent. 

“A bar coach told me that if I was having doubts, there was this program coming up,” says Blake, referring to the school’s Legal Residency Program. To participate in it, Arizona Summit graduates delayed taking a bar exam, and in exchange got four months of specialized bar review courses, optional law clerk positions and a stipend of approximately $36,000. 

It was open to all Arizona Summit graduates planning to take a bar exam, but the school does not it encourage it for people who appear ready for the test, Alan Mamood, the program’s lead instructor, says. 

Blake decided to join the program. The January 2015 graduate and 35 other program participants were expected to take the February 2017 bar exam. 

“I had studied all summer for the bar and I wanted to take it, but I had not secured a job and I have four children,” says Tracy Gillespie, another 2015 Arizona Summit graduate in the pilot program. “It’s a great opportunity the school offers for those people who for whatever reason are not able to really get the full studying the first time around,” Gillespie says. 

A for-profit law school that is part of the Infilaw System, Arizona Summit had a bar passage rate of 24.6 percent for its July 2016 first-time test takers. 

Some law school critics accuse the school of paying students to sit out the bar exam as a way to increase bar passage rates. The cynical view is that money spent on the pilot project could be a cost of doing business for the law school, which has 279 students and charges $45,424 for annual, full-time tuition. 

Donald Lively, the law school’s president, objects to accusations that his school’s legal residency program is meant as a tool to deceive people. 

“No one is bought off. All we’re trying to do is come up with an innovative solution for what has been a very vexing problem,” Lively says. “We bring in students who are in catch-up mode. They’ve gone to schools in less advantaged communities, and many have not had the same level of quality education as people who grew up in more fortunate circumstances.” [Emphasis mine]

Do you like how the name of the scheme tries to give this garbage a ring of legitimacy? Yes, what decent law firm wouldn’t want to hire some cretin who attended a FOURTH TIER TRASH CAN and its Legal Residency Program?!?! I’m sure Hiring Partners are falling all over themselves to snag up several of these award winners! By the way, Cockroach Donald Lively: if you are so concerned about your students who come from disadvantaged backgrounds, then maybe you shouldn’t charge $45,354 in full-time tuition for the 2016-2017 school year!! 

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/10/law-school-posts-worst-bar-exam-passage-rates-in-its-existence-drags-down-entire-states-passage-rates/

Prior Coverage: If this story sounds familiar, that is because the swine at this private toilet tried this before, although the dollar amount then was smaller. On October 16, 2016, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry labeled “Law School Posts Worst Bar Exam Passage Rates In Its Existence, Drags Down Entire State’s Passage Rates.” Read the following portion and ask yourself if this school is serving the “profession”:

“This summer, we regaled our readers with the tale of one for-profit law school’s plan to keep its low-performing students from taking the bar exam — and then failing the bar exam — immediately following graduation. The law school now requires that all students with GPAs below a 3.33 take and pass a mock bar exam as a graduation requirement, knowing full well that such a requirement may preclude countless students from being able to graduate and further sully their otherwise abysmal bar exam passage rates. 

Prior to implementing this plan, the law school allegedly offered graduates a four-month, intensive bar preparation program with a $5,000 stipend and called graduates the day before the exam and offering a $10,000 stipend for them to defer taking it. The institution in question is Arizona Summit Law School (formerly known as the Phoenix School of Law), and now that the results from the July 2016 administration of the Arizona bar are out, it’s time to see if anything this school has done to better prepare its graduates for the test has worked out. Thus far, nothing has helped Summit graduates[.] [Emphasis mine]

The bar results were still BEYOND PATHETIC! I guess this commode will never learn. Then again, a piece of trash named Neil Vincent Wake tossed out a lawsuit against Arizona $ummiTTTT for fraud and misrepresentation on December 27, 2016. Nice Christmas gift to the school, pig! You can damn near always count on politicians in black robes to do what is favorable to the Establishment.

Conclusion: If you are still considering law school, after the mountain range of evidence that shows it is a stupid decision for the vast majority of students, then at least have enough brain cells to not apply to Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer. The for-profit dung heap is rated as a FOURTH TIER CESSPIT every single damn year by “US “News” & World Report. The school is part of InfiLaw, which is owned by Sterling Partners, a Chicago-based private equity firm. Do you think – for one goddamn microsecond – that the “professors” or their investors give one single solitary droplet of excrement what happens to you?!?!

52 comments:

  1. "Having a bar passage rate of 24.6 percent doesn't mean Arizona Summit shouldn't exist.."

    Uh no, law professor pig, it actually does!

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    1. I graduated from a T2 law school nearly 25 years ago. Back then, schools didn’t pay any attention to preparing their students for the bar exam. That’s what BarBri was for. Of course schools back then had admission standards, even T4 crap holes. With few exceptions, students who lacked the aptitude to pass the bar exam either didn’t get into law school in the first place, or failed out long before graduation day rolled around.

      Arizona Summit’s dreadful bar passage rate is not caused by its failure to prepare its students for the exam. It’s caused by the school’s non-existent admission standards. The solution to this problem is simple enough - reject students who are at high risk of failing the bar exam based upon their LSAT score. But of course, Arizona Summit can’t do this because it needs these low aptitude students (and their loan dollars) to keep the lights on. If a school can only remain open by accepting large numbers of students who can’t pass the bar exam, that seems pretty clear proof that the school should cease to exist.

      Delete
  2. Funny that someone with four fucking kids thought it was a good idea to go to law school. Let alone a notorious for-profit fourth tier shithole. Prawfs get fat off retards.

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    1. Agreed. I bought into some "hopium" when I went to law school years ago as a non-trad, but at least I didn't try to do it with kids in tow. Just a long-suffering wife.

      Have one kid now, and I still regret the decision of law school. Can only imagine how people with larger families must feel.

      Law Schools do get fat of people's hopes. Students are trying to improve themselves, not impoverish themselves. I don't think the ScamDeans can tell the difference so long as it means money in the door.

      Delete
  3. If you give me $45,354, I will give you $36,000 to not take the bar. Rumor has it that the Cap'n will do it for $36,049.99.

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    1. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingMarch 6, 2017 at 8:14 AM

      No, No. Can't you read? It's $49.00 for those Chicagoland billboard Traffic Ticket Defense Lawyers.

      Delete
  4. What's to stop an Arizona Summit dummy from taking the money and moving to Bermuda?

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    1. If said dummy promised to never return I'd bet they'd pay his or her airfare. I mean, what a racket. Collect $130K plus in loan-funded tuition, flip $36K back to the dummy and the dummy disappears. If you live in a foreign country/colony your inability to pass an American bar exam wouldn't give you much of a claim for damages.

      I myself would take the 36 large, split for the coast, or maybe Vegas where they really know how to party, buy a return plane ticket and then drink like a fish until I was broke. Then I'd go back to AZ and take the bar exam completely jaked, followed by a return to campus to puke on the Dean's desk.

      That's the ticket. Get jaked and blow lunch. At least, unlike my classmates, I'd feel liket I'd actually accomplished something.

      Delete
    2. The Bermudian immigration authorities.

      Delete
  5. How has the Department of Education not shut off loans to this school with a 24.6% bar passage rate? I went to a 4th tier trash pit that should be shut down and still passed the bar.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. $$$$$

      and with the new Secretary of Education you can be super extra fucking sure they won't care.

      Delete
  6. Throwaway AttorneyMarch 5, 2017 at 6:17 PM

    That the ABA allows a open sores like Arizona Summit to continue to fester speaks volumes as to how horribly this shit profession is regulated. Given how easy it has become to gain admission into third tier schools, as opposed to unranked lesions like Arizona Summit, there's no reason to even have a fourth tier anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Damn...a 24.6% bar passage rate. The story of that stupid cow with 4 kids got me to thinking...

    Nando, I think you may have reached all of the potential law school applicants you are going to reach. The rest, like that Kelly Blake c*nt above with GPA's of 2.6 and LSAT scores of 140 don't have the sense to do an hour of online research to figure out that borrowing $150K and spending 3 years in a 4th-tier or un-ranked law-school cesspit is a bad idea. I think it is high time that you took your message to the general public and to the policy-makers who continue to allow idiots like this to borrow scads of money to attend these diploma-mills.

    I think your strategy should be to research and disclose the "social costs" of the law school scam, which has produced too many lawyers and, more importantly, too many unqualified lawyers in this country. I have neither the time nor the inclination to research the numbers. But I have a few local examples for you, from my little neck of the woods. We had a gaggle of hungry local lawyers who were doing "ad-litem" work for a family court. We're talking one judge, one court here. They somehow managed to bill our county $1.2 MILLION in legal services in fiscal year 2013. Doing the math, that meant that at the rate they were supposedly being paid, they charged the county for an average of around 60 HOURS of legal services for each day that court was in session!

    We had another idiot, a graduate of another low-TTT, upper TTTT sewer (South Texas College of Law) who managed to slither his way into county politics and became the county judge, who is the head of county government and also performs judicial duties such as presiding over mental health and probate matters. This idiot benefitted from a police cover-up after he was accused of trying to video-tape his neighbor in her bedroom http://www.kltv.com/story/31499337/police-report-details-2011-accusations-against-judge-baker. Later, he blew past our state's sunshine laws when he introduced an unconstitutional plan to use automated camera units to catch speeders in school zones http://www.tylerpaper.com/TP-News+Local/260557/update-former-smith-county-judge-joel-baker-pleads-no-contest-to-violating-texas-open-meetings-act. (He got convicted for that.) He was removed from office after he got caught sending and receiving obscene messages (including dick-pics) while he was supposed to be attending hearings as a member of the state's judicial ethics commission http://www.tylerpaper.com/TP-Breaking/241295/smith-county-judge-joel-baker-resigns.

    These kinds of f*ck-tards need to be prevented from matriculating in law skewl in the first place.

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    1. The idea of "upper TTTT" is pretty funny. Maybe the difference between a shit-filled toilet to the lid and one that's overflowing. But I guess the for-profits occupy a special place at the very bottom.

      Delete
  8. Wow. This school is almost as shitty as Touro.

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    1. Throwaway AttorneyMarch 6, 2017 at 1:51 PM

      Fourth tier is fourth tier. They're all shit schools that should be barred from receiving federal student loan money.

      Delete
  9. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingMarch 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM

    The parent company of Infilaw System is the Sterling Partners out of Chicago, near those $49.00 Billboard Traffic Ticket Lawyers. The Sterling Partners are just a bunch of guys and maybe one woman from time to time with a boatload of money who invest in many different companies to the point where they retain full controlling interests. They got lucky. They didn't invent anything. Their only goal in life is to make money off of YOU and the taxpayer. It's a bunch of bullshit, just like those billboards I keep mentioning. Think about it....

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  10. Hey, don't forget Puerto Rico. Three ABA-accredited law schools and only one is really worthwhile (U of Puerto Rico Law). Graduates can practice in the US and DC (after appropriate examinations and procedures) further flooding the market with below 145 LSATs and ok GPAs! I'm Puerto Rican so it's pretty embarrassing. Thanks to this site, I skipped going to InterAmerican University and instead took the CPA and CMA.

    ReplyDelete
  11. http://jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=126642

    On March 3, 2017 12:08 pm, JDU denizen “lurktastic” started a thread entitled “Arizona Summit now offering $36,000 stipend to delay taking the bar. Here is his original post:

    “This school is the gift that keeps on giving. Has anyone had any personal experience with graduates from this school or other Infilaw graduates? The few I have encountered have been nice people, but not people whose work product I would want to rely on.

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/will_delaying_the_exam_adding_training_help_arizona_summit_students_pass_th/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email”

    Contributor “downwardslope” provided this insight – on March 5, 2017 at 8:45 am:

    “Back then, the infilaw business model was to flunk out people who couldn't pass the bar. I've met some infilaw grads from around 8-12 years ago who were not so bad, but at that point everyone who made it through was expected to pass in a few tries. Some of the people I knew from that group were simply horrible test takers, although I do know a few people who went and managed to pass the bar who really shouldn't have gone to law school in the first place.

    I remember when I was in law school in the Midwest the default desperation option was Cooley and by that point it was like everyone I knew would sit down with the person and plead with them not to go. If they couldn't get in to anywhere BUT Cooley, it was not worth it. People would still go anyway.”

    On March 6, 2017 1:19 pm, “lazlo” added a brilliant idea that the ABA cockroaches will never adopt:

    “If law schools refunded some or all of their tuition in exchange for permanently not taking the bar, that'd be worth something.

    In any case, in the future for accreditation purposes students who flunk out or get paid off should be automatically counted as failures for bar passage rates.”

    Six minutes later, “6figuremistake” kicked the pigs in the snout:

    “LOL - maybe law schools will start offering money back guarantees*

    *Some restrictions may apply!”

    Still want to take the plunge, Lemming?!?! Simply put, if this is the best school that you can get into, then you are a loser – as your job prospects will be anemic, at best. Yet, you will essentially be required to take on outrageous sums of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. Furthermore, the commode’s bar passage rate is atrocious. Hell, even if you get a license, what decent law firm would want to hire your ass?!?! If you can’t score higher than a 148 on the LSAT, are you even capable of helping clients figure out their legal problems – and representing them competently?

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    1. Throwaway AttorneyMarch 6, 2017 at 12:27 PM

      That is comment gold, Nando.

      And this ought to be a general rule: If you can't get in anywhere but a fourth tier shithole, pursuing a law degree is simply not worth it.

      Do not attend a fourth-tier law school....period.

      Even if you're rich and connected, a fourth-tier school will only devalue your family name. Get a masters' in social work or go for a PhD if you really want to spend your family fortune on higher education.

      Delete
    2. In reference to the JDU comment about anyone having an experience with an Arizona SummiTTTT grad, one recent grad has been in the news in Arizona. An Arizona SummiTTTT grad working for an organization called Advocates for Individuals with Disabilities was involved in over 1,000 lawsuits against Arizona businesses. The group alleged the businesses violated the ADA through inadequate parking spaces and signs. The group went around measuring the height of handicapped parking signs and the width of parking spaces. They then filed lawsuits against businesses for simply having a sign that was 2 inches too low or for missing the “van accessible” sign below the handicapped parking sign. The lawsuits were filed on behalf of a disabled individual who had never even been to the businesses. The Arizona Attorney General had to step in, consolidate all of the cases, and file a motion to dismiss. All of the cases were dismissed last month. Now lawyers representing the businesses are seeking sanctions. In a previous lawsuit that had been dismissed, the Arizona SummiTTTT grad had been sanctioned by a Federal judge. The group has been advertising attorney job openings in other states to expand their operation.

      http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/politics/businesses-seek-legal-fees-as-ada-lawsuits-are-dismissed/article_7ea8c5c4-fade-11e6-91a0-af66f8208073.html

      http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/whos-who-with-advocates-for-individuals-with-disabilities

      Delete
  12. Infilaw..... for profit Law school.

    **Doesn't this seem very similar to the housing crash, where a group of bankers flooded the market with house mortgages that they "knew or should have known" that the people accepting the loans could not repay, and were high risk.

    Now Infilaw dropping standards providing over priced JD's that their student's most likely would not be able to repay. (high risk students).

    I guess both of the scenarios end with the tax payers in some shape or form taking the hit?

    This seems like a bad movie re-run I have seen before? How can this be legal ?

    This is why we need to continue to promote the HBCU law schools:

    - Cheaper tuition
    - Commitment to increase minority lawyers
    - No smoke and mirror's advertising


    I would rather attend a T$ school and have less debt then to attend these for profit schools exploiting the public, all while having the nerve to tarnish the good AAMPLE name.

    Remember the good old days when AAMPLE was ran out of Nova in sunny south Florida. Good graduating numbers, low attrition, and kick ass bar passage rates, the possibility to attend the Legal Intern program in Florida, and actually practice law before graduation (of course under a supervising attorney), but none the less, bragging rights at the local bar, sipping martini's trading war stories).

    Infilaw ... your students deserve better than this! If you can't turn this around, I suggest placing a call to one of the HBCU's to review their "Play Book"- titled "how to win".

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Team AAMPLE,

      I have to give you credit, that was some good trolling. I laughed at your line, "these for profit schools...tarnish the good AAMPLE name." I also liked your joke about AAMPLE grads "sipping martini's trading war stories."

      Delete
  13. http://jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=126850#post10217665

    greenhorn (Mar 6, 2017 - 9:53 am)

    I don't believe I was ever successful in talking someone out of law school, but I definitely tried.

    Although I know this sounds like I'm an evil person, but I found satisfaction in running into people I tried talking out of law school but who went anyway and ended up as in a position worse than before they went. I distinctly remember this one guy who I tried steering away from law school but he dismissed my warnings as attempts to thwart future competition in a "lucrative industry."

    I saw him working a cash register at CVS.

    qdllc (Mar 6, 2017 - 2:28 pm)

    Not on law school, but I've tried to "wake up" people on other important "mistakes" the average American is making. So often I get "tuned out," and I just have to walk away knowing that I at least tried to talk some sense into them.

    I told people back in 2000 that a college education was a questionable "investment" given where employment was heading (and the cost of college). It was 2011 that the mainstream press started reporting exactly what I had been warning people about...insane tuition/debt, lack of good jobs, a lifetime of debt slavery for graduates, etc.

    Reply
    3lol (Mar 6, 2017 - 9:57 am)

    "...dismissed my warnings as attempts to thwart future competition in a 'lucrative industry.'"
    "I saw him working a cash register at CVS"

    I usual feel bad for people but this is a cause for lol.

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  14. This move by Arizona SummiTTTT suggests that their operation is quite profitable to the Sterling Partners. $36,000 is almost a full year of tuition at Arizona SummiTTTT. Plus, the toilet is providing additional bar review courses. Sterling Partners is willing sacrifice part of their profit for the foreseeable future, in order to prop up the bar passage rate so that the ABA and Federal government don’t come in and shut down this toilet. They want this profit generating scheme to continue. They don’t want Arizona SummiTTTT to be shut down like Charlotte. The fact that Charlotte continues to operate suggests that the toilet was quite profitable to the Sterling Partners. They are willing to take a short term loss operating without access to student loans, in the hopes that Trump will reopen the student loan spigot and allow them to go back to raking in money.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingMarch 6, 2017 at 2:58 PM

    Wow. This is bigger than President Obama playing with Trump's wire.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Why the fuck would anyone go to law school at something named Arizona Summit? That alone should be enough to tell you it's shit.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. To escape poverty and to have a fighting chance at entering the middle class.

      A JD is a JAD, it beats working at Walmart as an assistant manager (the economy is rough out there for laymen without JD's).

      At least we can become minister's of justice, get a ticket to the bar, and in the court room no one cares about which school you went to (it's not like we walk around with name tags displaying this info) all the consumers see is a man in a suit and a every lawyer appears to be a lawyer( criminal law is taught the same at all law schools).

      A ticket to practice law, that's all we want. Without the shaming and finger pointing at our beloved alma mater.

      You know, out of all the infilaw law schools Arizona Sum. happens to be the crown jewel of the bunch. Right before the flagship Florida Costal law school.

      I know times are tough, actually down right turbulent waters, but the school is committed to turning things around. A top notch consulting firm was hired to manage the turn around strategy, which includes the latest news posted here today.

      By deciding to put the needs of the students first they will stabilize enrollment, increase the bar passage rate to acceptable levels, and provide a JD worth writing home to mom about!

      Just give it sometime you will notice the improvements!

      Delete
    2. How much is InfiLaw paying you to suck their dick? Or are you just doing it for free?

      Delete
    3. You need serious help.

      A JD now will ruin you for 2 to 2.5 decades.

      40 years out.

      Delete
    4. @10:11 if he's being paid to shill for Infilaw, he shouldn't be because he's fucking terrible at it.

      Delete
  17. http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/08/infilaw-school-transitions-from-normal-for-profit-villainy-to-cartoonish-super-villainy

    Back on August 19, 2016, Paul Campos sandblasted Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer in a blog entry labeled "Infilaw school transitions from normal villainy to cartoonish super-villainy." Enjoy the full text of that article:

    "The ABA, which is finally under serious fire from federal regulators for rubber-stamping a seemingly endless cavalcade of crazily expensive new law schools with horrible admissions and bar passage statistics, is on the verge of actually putting some teeth into its bar passage requirements.

    If adopted, the new rules would require 75% of a school’s graduates who take the bar to pass it within two years of graduation. When I wrote about this a few months ago, some incredibly cynical and mean-spirited commenters noted that a school could tweak its stats by paying graduates not to take the bar, or even better yet just flunking out students right before they were set to graduate.

    Not surprisingly, the Infilaw schools — the 9th circle of the law school scam — are becoming visionary thought leaders in this field. Here’s an email that Dean Shirley Mays of Arizona Summit just sent to the school’s third-year (!) students:

    I strongly encourage each of you to take the pre-bar prep class. It will help prepare you to take the bar exam. The pre-bar prep class will have as a final a mock bar exam which will contribute significantly to your grade. Taking the mock bar exam will afford you the opportunity to receive feedback about your strengths and areas of improvement going into the bar exam. It also will give you a taste of what you will experience two months after graduation as you prepare for the February or July 2017 bar exam.

    To facilitate taking the pre-bar prep class, we will offer the class from 0 – 4 credits. Thus, for example, if taking the class will shift you from part-time to full-time status, take the class for 0 credits and you can take the class for free. Kudos to those of you who already have taken the initiative and added this class to your schedule. If you would like to take the class for fewer than 4 credits, we will send instructions on how to do so prior to the add/drop period.

    Please note, effective with the May 2017 graduates, even though taking the class is not a requirement, a passing score on a mock bar exam will be a graduation requirement. We will share these specifics in a subsequent email early next week.

    Warm regards,

    Dean Mays

    Note, this brand new and very substantial requirement for graduation (and thus for eligibility to take the bar), has been imposed on people who are a week away from starting their final year of law school, at an institution that has already charged them nearly $90,000 in tuition, and is about to charge them $45,000 more.

    Yet given the complete cratering of the school’s bar passage rates and the impending possibility of the ABA imposing real standards, this sort of grift on steroids is only to be expected."

    ReplyDelete
  18. Nando, I've been doing a lot of thinking about what might stop the bleeding. There have been all sorts of suggestions offered here, like removing the ABA from the accreditation process. But stuff like that would create new states and federal governmental and quasi-governmental bureaucracies and could possibly make the problem worse.

    The key here is student loan money. The federal government simply needs to close the free-for-all ATM where these low-tier and for-profit law schools are getting their cash. I think what I propose would be easy to legislate a the federal level and would not require creation of new government bureaucracies. It has two parts.

    1. First put a cap on the number of available student loans for law students. Dole out a set number of student loans to each school based on their average enrollment in the previous 3 years. That would essentially prevent the creation of new law schools and would all but prohibit existing law schools from expanding.

    2. This one is a little more interesting, but I think it might work. Many of the proposed solutions here have addressed the problem on the "back end" by requiring certain bar passage rates, post-graduation employment, etc. So you have schools that are propping up their statistics with the kinds of unethical measures this Arizona Summit outfit is taking. What's happening is that these schools are discarding struggling students after the damage has been done--after they have borrowed $100K or more to pay tuition. The answer here is to use the LSAT, which is a fairly good predictor of the likelihood of passing the bar. Simply prohibit law schools from offering more than 5% of their student loan "quotas" (set by measure #1, above)to students who scored below the 25th percentile on the LSAT. The "5%" would be an answer to the bleeding hearts' whining about what to do about "kids who don't do well on standardized tests." Schools could still admit a few "exceptional" students with dyslexia or whatever whom they think might somehow end up being good lawyers.

    Furthermore, my "5%" idea might have another effect: College students who figure out they will have trouble getting above the 25th percentile on the LSAT may say "why bother." So with fewer dumb-asses taking the LSAT, it would become even harder to score in the upper 75 percentile. In turn, that would reduce the number of students who would be eligible for student loans, which would reduce law school enrollment, and we're back to #1, above. It would be the perfect "positive feedback loop" that might, within just a few years, bring an end to the law school scam and stabilize the legal job market!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance KingMarch 7, 2017 at 2:02 PM

    Question here: Is this taxable income? 1099?

    ReplyDelete
  20. “No one is bought off. All we’re trying to do is come up with an innovative solution for what has been a very vexing problem.”

    What, exactly, is "vexing" about this problem? If your school has a less than 25% bar passage rate, your admission standards are too low. End of story. Oh, but I see - that does leave a "vexing" problem: what will happen to all those professors and administrators who have to find real jobs that don't involve financially ruining twenty-somethings who've been sold a bill of goods? Vexing indeed...

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  21. The professors and ABA are fucking scum. There's no question about that. But the students played a central role in their own. Don't feel at all sorry for the dumbshits who went to TTT Law Skewl and now owe $300k. They knew the risks before. Fuck them.

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    1. I'll admit that I do feel sorry for them, as they are ruining their lives. They've been told by seemingly responsible members of society-the ABA/the deans/the profs-that attending law school is a good idea. These folks leave out the fact that the scam has made them-literally-rich off student loan dollars.
      And doofus posters like Team AAMPLE either don't know or don't care and give terrible advice to the naive.
      And the media hypes being a lawyer. I have never, not once, seen a realistic depiction of the practice of law. It's all either a. a lot of money coming your way or b. non-stop important cases saving the world or c. both. I would love to see a TV lawyer in docket or at a day's worth of probation revocations-glamorous work, certainly.
      But here's why you ought to care: student loan debt is a time bomb, and you as a working person will end up cleaning up the mess. It appears that Wall Street did just fine after the housing meltdown-Main Street not so much. The same will happen here.
      And keep in mind it's not just law school-look at all the culinary/art/medical assistant/etc etc schools in your town. Every one-every single one-lives on federal $$$ through the loan conduits, er, students. Billions of dollars a year insuring that the scammers stay rich.
      An earlier poster had it right; Nando has probably reached anyone willing to listen. The time has come for political will to shut of the loan dollars before disaster strikes.
      But who will do this? It does not appear there is any political will to stop the education scam; just a lot of shrugged shoulders. And you can bet this-it won't go on forever. At some point it collapses, and you and other taxpayers foot the bill.
      The scammers? Well, they just move along to the next scam.

      Delete
    2. I don't agree that "they knew the risks before," though. Up until recently, most schools published a 97% employed-at-graduation rate on their websites, despite the fact that in many cases, this was a blatant lie. If your doctor recommended surgery to you and told you it was expensive, but had a 97% success rate, wouldn't you be a bit miffed if you later found out it actually had a 90% failure rate, and you were one of the unlucky ones?

      Delete
  22. This is beyond ridiculous and beyond disgraceful; the ABA ought to shut this place down immediately; if not them, then the DOE needs to do it.
    What would happen if a medical/dental/nursing/pharmacy school paid its grads to not take their licensing exam? They'd be shut down in a minute. What if your college's education or accounting programs did that? Well, they'd be shut down, too.
    This is so ridiculous that it borders on farce. I'd bet Voltaire could have written a pretty good assessment of the law school scam.
    And remember fellow posters you're not just bystanders; when the whole thing collapses, it will be you as taxpayers footing the bill.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Throwaway AttorneyMarch 8, 2017 at 8:39 PM

      The ABA is as bad a joke as any fourth tier diploma mill, and probably just as much on the take.

      The only way to shut down these unranked cesspools is to cut off the flow of federal student loan money. And that probably won't happen until enough unemployed graduates from these diploma mills default on repaying. That's probably the only thing that will get Congress to do anything about this.

      Reform will eventually happen. The only question is how many lives will be destroyed before it does.

      Delete
  23. In reply to @8:07:

    I'm not sorry for them either, but these morons are costing the taxpayers assloads of money. What's amazing to me is that these people got all the way through college and never had--or understood--any kind of reality-check. Failed Algebra I in 9th grade--probably not going to be a famous astrophysicist. 870 on your SAT? Probably not going to go to medical school and become a brain surgeon. 145 on your LSAT and a 2.5 GPA? Sure, you can be a lawyer.

    This is what happens when everybody gets a trophy just for participating and kids are told "follow your dreams" their whole lives. It's fine to encourage little kids to reach for the stars when they say they want to be a fireman or become President. But by about high school we need to be more honest about kids' aptitude for certain occupations. The LSAT is an aptitude test and unfortunately is the only available objective instrument for predicting who is likely and unlikely to pass the bar. Can't pass the bar, can't be a lawyer, plain and simple.

    Quit giving student loan money to dumbasses just because they want to go to law school.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nobody ever told Old Guy that he could be a major-league quarterback or principal violinist for a symphony orchestra. You can probably guess the reasons. Yet every mother-fucking jackanapes, we're told, is cut out to be a lawyer.

      Delete
  24. http://jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=127003#post10219441

    Confirms what we in the law school scamblog world have said for years..

    GULC just had its rep as a 'trap school' officially cemented by US News.

    ---------------------------------------

    thepoporcoming (Mar 8, 2017 - 10:40 am)

    My buddy graduated from GWU law 220K in debt with no job lined up in 2011.
    Besides the expensive degree, living costs in DC is absolutely crazy.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Law school didn't help me get a better job. I made more before I went than what I make now. And now I have the debt.

    My grades after first semester put me at the middle of the pack. Not good enough even for a school ranked in the top 50. So I ended up spending the last two years eating out my girlfriend who I met at law school. I mean what else is a broke law student with shit job prospects supposed to do.

    During my last semester I remember thinking one time when she sat on my face that I had effectively spent $100,000 to eat her pussy. She had a nice muff, but it wasn;t worth $100 grand.

    ReplyDelete
  26. “We bring in students who are in catch-up mode. They’ve gone to schools in less advantaged communities, and many have not had the same level of quality education as people who grew up in more fortunate circumstances.”

    What a load of bullshit! This Lively fuck is trying to frame his profit-seeking institution as progressive and emancipatory. Make no mistake: his toilet school preys upon people who have no business pursuing a career in law.

    Do you want to know who went to poor schools? Old Guy. Rural high school in one of the states with perennially bottom-of-the-barrel public education. Yet somehow I ended up at an √©lite law school—certainly not at a toilet like Arizona Summit.

    ReplyDelete
  27. There has been a lot of criticism of Arizona Summit. But according to the Law Offices of Judd S. Nemiro, PLLC, Arizona Summit is “[t]he best Law School in Arizona & USA.” The law office vouches for Arizona Summit in the testimonial section of the school’s website.

    The Arizona Summit website has some hilarious statements touting the school. “We believe by graduation, lawyers should enter the workforce fully prepared to practice law in a variety of diverse settings and industries...Our commitment to student centered outcomes – such as Bar and Career preparation – is released through mentorship and guidance by our administrators and faculty.”

    Apparently not when the school needs to pay graduates to forgo taking the bar.

    According to the school’s website, in order to graduate from this toilet, students need to complete 50 hours of pro bono or public service. I’m curious how the school verifies that students actually complete this work. I’m sure a substantial portion of students fabricate public service.

    ReplyDelete
  28. HOLY SH*T NANDO ARE YOUS TILL GOING AT THIS? I DID THE SCAM BLOG THING BACK IN 2007 IN THE L2L SCOTT ET AL. DAYS. YOU ARE A LEGEND MY MAN. MICHAEL JORDAN LEVEL OF DEDICATION AND WORK. GAVE ME A REAL SENSE OF COMFORT TO GOOGLE YOU AND SEE YOU STILL SPREADING THE MESSAGE.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the kind words. I give plenty of credit to the forefathers of the scamblog movement as well. It's great to see the law school pigs squirm. After all, just think of all the lives they have ruined with their lies, false stats, and misrepresentations.

      Delete
  29. Apparently Journalism students are also having problems. Multivitamin soup anyone?

    https://theawl.com/a-note-regarding-michael-schudson-and-journalism-schools-9d23faa1ea9e#.7bgd1241l

    First was that I’d just talked to a mid-00’s Columbia J-school grad who was eating, for his meal that day, hot water with crushed-up vitamins in it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Journalism is a worthless degree.

      Delete
  30. http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/10/arizona-summit-law-school-moves-affiliate-private-non-profit-university/98970458/

    Today, at 12:05 am, the Arizona Republic published an Anne Ryman story headlined “Arizona Summit Law School moves to affiliate with a private, non-profit university.” Check out this opening:

    “A for-profit law school in downtown Phoenix that is struggling with falling bar-passage rates is moving to affiliate with one of the country’s historically black colleges and universities.

    Arizona Summit Law School has signed an affiliation agreement with the private, non-profit Bethune-Cookman University in Daytona Beach, Florida.

    The law school, founded in 2004, once boasted bar passage rates of 97 percent but has seen its percentages drop to 25 percent among first-time test takers.

    School officials said they have made several changes aimed at improving bar passage, and that the affiliation with Bethune-Cookman will enable them to benefit from the university's academic support services and marketing. A university official also will serve on Arizona Summit's board of trustees.

    The deal would allow both schools to pursue their objectives of diversifying the legal profession, officials said.

    "This enables us to take it to a much higher level sooner, swifter and with greater impact," Arizona Summit President Donald Lively said.

    Bethune-Cookman President Edison Jackson said in a statement, “Together, we aim to be a leading force in disrupting a legacy of exclusion that has persisted into the 21st century.”

    http://www.cookman.edu/about_BCU/administration/presidentsbio.html

    According to his bio, Edison Jackass “received a B.S. in Zoology with a minor in chemistry, followed by a Master of Arts Degree in Counseling from Howard University. He also received a Masters of Arts in Theology from New York Theological Seminary in New York City; and in October 1983, he received a Doctorate in Education from Rutgers University with academic emphasis on philosophy, function, role and administration of urban educational institutions.” Yet, he wants to give you the impression that he is a dumb bastard.

    After all, only a damn fool would rave about this particular union leading to an end of the supposed “exclusion” of blacks from the super-amazing, prestigious “legal profession.” Arizona $ummiTTTT Law Sewer is a FOURTH TIER PILE OF BAT DROPPINGS!! The toilet’s bar passage rate is effectively lower than crocodile piss. And you think that sending or encouraging young black men and women to this gutter is going to “diversify the profession”?!?!

    By the way, Daytona Beach is more than 2,100 miles away from Phoenix. What the hell happened to partnering with another institution in the same geographic area? Perhaps this Ed.D. recipient couldn’t figure out the distance between these two pioneers in the higher education industrial complex.

    ReplyDelete
  31. https://www.yahoo.com/news/harvard-law-begin-accepting-gre-scores-not-just-215231332.html

    Harvard Law School now accepting GREs.

    ReplyDelete

 
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