Friday, June 16, 2017

Cretins Keep Applying to Law School While Fewer Sudents Overall Seek to Enroll in ABA Diploma Mills


http://abovethelaw.com/2017/06/the-law-school-brain-drain-continues-to-wreak-havoc/?rf=1

Dummies Not Heeding the Message: On June 13, 2017, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry labeled “Law School Brain Drain Continues To Wreak Havoc.” Here is the full text of her article:

“Hot on the heels of the news thatstudents with terrible LSAT scores are applying to law school in droves comes an update from the Law School Admission Council that there are fewer applicants seeking law school admission for the upcoming academic year. As of June 2, 52,853 applicants sent 343,393 applications to ABA-accredited law schools for the 2017-18 academic year. While applications are up by 1.4 percent, the number of applicants has dropped by 0.5 percent.

As we previously discussed, the number of law school applicants with LSAT scores of less than 150 has increased by 146 percent over the course of the past 10 years. This is distressing for a number of reasons, and Dean Paul Caron of Pepperdine Law told Karen Sloan of Law.com as much in this interview: 

“It’s not a great thing for the profession or for law schools when the best and the brightest are not going to law schools in the same proportion that they have gone in the past,” Caron said in an interview Monday. He said that it’s not a surprise that if LSAT scores are down, three years later, students are having a harder time passing the bar. 

“It’s not a ringing endorsement for the profession,” he said. 

What is to be done about the law school brain drain? According to Dean Caron, it’s up to law schools to make the legal profession more appealing to millennials. That might not be an easy task, given recent graduates’ inability to pass the bar exam coupled with their burgeoning debt loads. How many recent law grads would recommend going to law school? The answer, we fear, is not many. 

Until the wisest of millennials can be convinced that law school is worth the high cost, we may continue to feed the cycle of dismal bar exam passage rates, producing yet another generation of unhappy, unemployed, or underemployedlaw school graduates. This does not bode well for anyone.” [Emphasis mine]

Waterheads continue to enroll in law school, and you know that they will end up in garbage heaps that provide weak-ass employment prospects. Furthermore, the dolts will perform worse on the bar exam. Of course, you will then see more pigs publicly bitch and cry that the test is too damn hard for their inferior graduates. Yet, those same swine have no problem charging those idiots $35K+ in annual tuition. 

http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/id=1202789663946/Fewer-Law-School-Applicants-in-Line-for-Upcoming-School-Year?slreturn=20170515230022

Other Coverage: On June 13, 2017, the New York Law Journal re-published a David Ruiz piece entitled “Fewer Law School Applicants in Line for Upcoming School Year.” Take a look at this opening:

“The number of law school applicants has dropped for the upcoming academic year, according to new data released by the Law School Admission Council. 

The numbers, as of June 2, show that American Bar Association-accredited law schools received 343,395 applications from 52,853 applicants for the 2017-18 school year. Compared with last year, applications are up 1.4 percent, but the actual number of applicants dropped 0.5 percent. 

Those totals are coupled with increasingly mediocre performance by prospective law school students taking the Law School Admission Test, or LSAT. 

The number of law school applicants who scored more than 160 on the LSAT has gone down 35 percent since 2010, according to Paul Caron, dean of Pepperdine University School of Law and editor of TaxProf Blog. Inversely, the number of law school applicants with LSAT scores lower than 150 has gone up 146 percent since 2010.” [Emphasis mine]

Does anyone with a functioning brain stem think – for one microsecond – that this is a good trend for the commodes?! That is a huge drop in applicants who scored higher than 160, while at the same time dunces have flooded to law school.

Now, scroll down to this conclusion:

“Caron said it is up to law schools and lawyers to make the legal profession appealing to millennials. He said there are valid criticisms of both the LSAT and the bar exam, but that focusing only on tests ignores the other side of the problem. 

"There's been a decline in the top student coming to law school," he said. "The data is irrefutable there."

Of course, more ABA-accredited diploma factories – including quite a few of the name brand schools – are now accepting the GRE in lieu of the LSAT. The pigs do so, under the veil of “opening the doors of the profession to more people.” In the end, they merely use this to attract more lemmings.

Conclusion: The fact that those with higher LSAT scores are choosing to avoid law school speaks volumes about this gutter “profession.” Those young men and women understand that if they do not get into an elite school, then their employment outlook will not justify the expense of three years of their lives – and an additional $150K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. The prospects for TTT grads is MUCH worse. The lawyer job market in this country is GLUTTED, and only a damn fool would argue otherwise.

33 comments:

  1. We need another hip show like the practice. New narrative:

    New AAMPLE grad defeats the odds:

    Graduates with JD
    Passes bar on second try
    Rounds up a crew of fellow classmates to start their
    own practice

    -they didn't want to play by the rules set by the legal system so they decided to do things their way and hung a shingle.


    Titled: my way or the highway.

    This new series would put the sexy back in lawyering and restore the legal image.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fellow AAMPLE alumni here:


      Power suit, Power tie.....

      Its the only way to do it !

      Delete
    2. The "power tie" is a NOOSE.

      Been there, done that.

      Did not take my 40 years of practice to figure that out.

      Delete
    3. What AAMPLE troll is trying to say, is these AAMPLE grads go into porn for employment. They put "sexy" back into lawyering in the show titled: my way or the hershey highway.

      Delete
    4. With their bloated white skin, zits, and grossly overweight condition, the average JD recipient is simply unqualified to appear in a starring role in porn opposite of some "ripped" tatted trailer trash. No J.D. advantage job here!

      Delete
  2. The big limitation of the legal field is that it requires an existing asset to fight over (deep pocket). Thus making it a zero-sum, asset-leeching pursuit.

    If you go into finance or IPO type stuff, then there is the ability to create "paper" that has nominal value above what existed before. Thus, you can cut other parties into the deal and make it a win/win for everybody, at least in the short term. Now, this paper may prove to be worthless down the road, but if you're smart you've employed a full array of CYA techniques for plausible deniability.

    Lawyers can help with these legal safe harbors, but certainly none from any TTT schools will be trusted on these deals! Those pathetic water heads are all chasing the $50 traffic ticket cases while they figure out how to dodge student loan collectors.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Are any law skools taking people with 129 on the lsat yet?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Univershitty of Texas, placed in "Tier 1" by You Ass News but in Tier 4 by Old Guy, has admitted someone with a 128:

      http://watchdog.org/146432/128-lsat-ut/

      Delete
    2. What is the lowest LSAT score of someone who has been admitted?

      Delete
  4. Shit, it'll be easier to get into some master's programs than into law school.

    ReplyDelete
  5. We need another hip show like the practice. New narrative:
    goldenslot
    บาคาร่า online

    ReplyDelete
  6. Let them. Assholes gonna assolate..

    Law is an aristocracy profession. You have to be a member of the Club.

    Fired from Biglaw after 2 years while Charles Winchester III moved up to Senior Associate and then Partner after 8 years?

    He was a member of the Club. You weren't..

    I know very, very few people from my class doing well after 20+ years. Some are solos. Some are in 3-person firms. Yes, that's right.. 3-person firms.

    Some are clinging to local gov't jobs and capped out at $80k after 20 years. Those are, I consider, the "lucky" ones.

    A handful, literally, are in-house. A handful, literally, are in the judiciary.

    That's it.

    The people that are doing well, very well, were the stupid ones that were part of the Club. They certainly didn't have the grades or, for that matter, the intellectual ability and yet they have been at the highest echelons of law for decades - with IQ's less than dog shit.

    Because they are a part of the Club. They were initiated into the Club through connections the 99% didn't have - and will never have - and prospered because of that.

    Law is all about exclusivity. Not ability. It's all about business generation and contacts, not hard work.

    But fuck it.. People still want to go. Let them. The Great Unwashed Masses are needed to be fleeced and the 1% need an underclass, the dumber the better.

    Where are the parents advising these fuckwits not to gamble $2-300k in non-dischargeable student loan debt?

    The Boomer parents are just as dumb as their shitlet offspring. Dumber, in fact. And certainly blind to today's economy since literally everything is filtered through the Boomer perspective of 1965...

    It doesn't matter. There will always be enough assholes to screw over for these "non-profits". Classes might be smaller but that just means fewer prawfs in the long-run eating at each trough.

    ReplyDelete
  7. This is great news! The continued decline in applicants is a testament to the hard work of Nando and the law school scamblog movement. It is amazing that ordinary citizens, publishing true information on simple blogs, could take down such a corrupt and vile industry like the law school cartel.

    Over the past several years, law profs and administrators have had access to the New York Times, Washington Post, and other news outlets to publish op-ed pieces about the supposed benefit of a law degree. They have made predictions about the imminent recovery in the legal market that never materialized. They have published fraudulent articles about the supposed million dollar value of a JD. Despite the massive advantages of the law school cartel to spread their lies, they have failed to attract more students, and they have failed to attract the top students.

    I’m especially thankful to the scamblog movement, because they have exposed ass hat law profs like the commenter “Market” on Tax prof blog. Tax prof blog has an article on the poor quality of legal scholarship. Law school reformers argue that professors should focus less on worthless scholarship and more on teaching students. Check out what the ass hat wrote:

    “No self-respecting, moderately competent graduate of an Ivy League school with a federal clerkship under her belt is going to move to the fly over to make $100K per year teaching a double or triple load at a mediocre law school, with no prospects for career advancement, when she could be living in NY or DC or San Francisco making $300K per year and working fewer hours in a cushy in house job.

    The only way that mediocre law schools can attract competent faculty is by offering them opportunities for career advancement through scholarship. People accept faculty positions at George Mason believing they are going to be able to publish their way to University of Virginia within a few years.

    Take away that hope--even if it's a false hope--and being a law professor starts to look a whole lot like being a high school teacher. Would you want the guy who taught shop class or physical education teaching a class on securities regulation?

    [M]any...will leave academe [sic] for private practice if the only academic job they can get isn't at a good school in a good city...If it's Columbus, many of them are not sticking around.”

    http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/06/the-legal-scholarship-bubble-has-burst.html

    Law profs and administrators have nothing but disdain for their students.

    ReplyDelete
  8. http://jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=134344

    On June 13, 2017 at 4:14 pm, JDU accountholder "sanka" posted a thread labeled "Brain drain above the law." Take a look at this portion of the discussion:

    isthisit (Jun 13, 2017 - 4:25 pm)

    “I'd recommend people to go into the health field. There's plenty of jobs in key health roles.

    Law is for suckers.”
    ________________________________________
    3lol (Jun 13, 2017 - 5:27 pm)

    Yup. It's really the only field that's "safe." Of course, the reshuffling of roles in the health field might put certain jobs in jeopardy, but by and large they'll be okay. I work with a lot of docs and post residency salaries would make 99% of law grads jelly.
    ________________________________________
    onehell (Jun 13, 2017 - 6:27 pm)

    Indeed. A lot of JDs don't look there because their liberal artistry tends to preclude them having much in the way of the science prereqs (and because they are already too deep in debt to go back and essentially do undergrad over), but that is really only a barrier to medical/nursing/PA school. There's also a lot of jobs in healthcare for MSWs, MPAs and MPHs, all of which are programs that are hospitable to JDs and often even waive GRE for them. Also, there's a significant field of healthcare compliance for which the JD is directly relevant (albeit neither necessary nor sufficient).

    Now, scroll down to this brilliant comment, from "patenttrollnj" - from June 14, 2017 1:08 am:

    "In my opinion, I just think it's silly to waste 3 years and $150K for a career that will only last a few years.

    I graduated 15 years ago, and out of the people I'm in touch with from my law school, nobody is currently practicing law (soon, that will include me too). The only classmates that I know of who are practicing law are the ones who get profiled in my school's alumni publication.

    Too bad US Snooze doesn't factor the 10-year employment statistics when ranking law schools."

    By the way, that last message was referring to those lucky enough to get into the gutter “profession.” Hell, those who pass the bar exam – but have no clients – are not really lawyers. You are not an attorney until someone, including an employer, pays your ass to represent their interests in legal matters.

    The law school pigs do not want to track graduates 10 years out, and the excuse they employ is that it would take too much time, money, and effort. The reality is that the bitches and hags KNOW that relatively few JDs are practicing law that far removed from law school. Plus, lemmings would ignore those numbers anyway, because they feel that they are “special” and those results don’t apply to them. Yes, you are so unique and remarkable, you had to matriculate at a fourth tier garbage pit!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good catch, Founder of this blog.

      I saw that thread and was going to post it but you have done my work for me.

      However, I also saw this video from "unperson", 'memba him?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc77AT9PLUc

      More than half of all law school graduates did not have a job as a lawyer within 1 year of graduation.

      Another stat:

      Avg debt: $140k
      (* not including undergrad)

      etc.

      You have to pause the video at several points but it's well worth the trouble.

      This was uploaded in 2009.

      We're closing in on 2018, almost a decade later. Does anyone think the problems mentioned in that video have gotten anything but much, much worse?

      Seriously??

      20+ years ago, in class - one of my last - a classmate and I were talking and he turned to me and said, "I bet a third of these people, right off the top, will never get jobs as lawyers."

      And he was probably right.

      Well, like I said above, people like to gamble. Step right up and plunk down $300k combined. See where it gets you..

      It's only worth talking when somebody listens, I suppose.

      Delete
    2. $300k combined student debt for anything less than medical school (and even there you probably want to specialize) is retarded.

      One of my friends got his Master's from Harvard. And guess how much it cost him? Just $8,000. That's right, just eight thousand dollars. he did his program online. The guy makes bank. he works hard and he's on the road a lot. But his beautiful wife stays home and takes care of their kids. There's no excuse for taking on that much debt unless like I said you graduated from medical school.

      Delete
    3. @6:25 pm,

      I saw that video link you posted, from "unperson." Thank you for including that here. L4L, Tom the Temp, and unperson inspired me to start this blog. It seems that his site, "Exposing the Law School Scam" also influenced Paul Campos on his blog, ITLSS.

      https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/applying/articles/2009/04/22/why-law-school-is-for-everyone

      Plus, I had some added motivation from Frank Wu and this garbage article from April 22, 2009. It was entitled "Why Law School Is For Everyone." Here is one particular pile of rubbish from that post:

      "Lawyers must be more than merely lawyers. More than ever before, they need to blend analysis of legal doctrines with skills from accounting or physics or foreign languages. Hence, the trend toward lawyer-doctors, lawyer-engineers, lawyer-businesspeople, and so on.

      Students have been ahead of their teachers for some time. They have long been coming to law school planning to adapt their training to myriad pursuits. They benefit from their ability to interpret a statute, even if they end up opening a restaurant.

      Light for all. It is time for the institutions to adjust, offering new specializations, clinical opportunities, and appropriate placement services. Professors are realizing that they ought to cultivate multiple intelligences, not limited to the technical logic of analogizing and distinguishing precedent and hypothetical fact patterns. They see that the Juris Doctor program at its best continues the well-rounded liberal arts curriculum, presenting an array of intellectual challenges."

      A restaurant owner can merely hire a damn lawyer to represent them in legal matters. There is no need to piss away three years of your life - or to accumulate idiotic levels of student debt. Hell, if someone is successful, smart, or connected enough to own a diner or simple pizzeria, then they are intelligent enough to understand a notice from the county health department or numerous city codes. For $ome rea$on, Wu did not mention that fact.

      Delete
    4. Ha! Frank Wu’s comments are Trumpian. There is no trend toward lawyer-doctors. How the hell does studying the ownership of a fox in 19th century America, the Rule Against Perpetuities, or personal jurisdiction in the Pennoyer case, help doctors to diagnose a disease? The patient has a fever, headache, stiff neck. Kernig’s and Brudzinki’s sign are positive. Spinal tap indicates low glucose and elevated PMNs. Thanks to the hundreds of hours I spent playing hide the ball with law professors, while getting grilled on fanciful hypotheticals, I now have the “critical thinking skills” to figure out that the diagnosis is bacterial meningitis! Yeah right. Sure, now I’ll rely on my Con law class to select a broad spectrum antibiotic to treat the patient while we wait for the culture results to come back. Thanks toilet law school for generously only charging me $150k for such a fine education!

      Doctors and med students are not seeking out JDs. They are getting PhDs to further specialize and become researchers, they are getting masters degrees to further specialize, they are getting MBAs to help them better understand the business aspects of medicine, or they are getting MPHs. There is even a new MD-engineering school opening in a year or two. I would never call myself a “lawyer-doctor.” I went into medicine after law school because there is no demand for toilet law grads. I had every intention of practicing law. But you can’t practice law when law firms, government offices, prosecutor offices, public defenders offices, and clerkships all reject you. Oh that’s right, with $150k in debt, and no experience, I’m supposed “hang a shingle.” Why is that doctors, nurses, pharmacists, engineers, MBAs, computer programmers, and other professionals are never told to go “hang a shingle?” Because they aren’t apart of a garbage profession. I don’t even list my toilet law degree on my resume or maintain active bar status. Smart people are not impressed with the JD.

      I do know a couple of “lawyer-businesspeople.” Only like me, they are not practicing lawyers. They got a JD first. When that quickly fizzled, (one was stuck working doc review) they went to business school and got great jobs in business.

      The claim that a JD continues the “well-rounded” liberal arts curriculum is a complete joke. The liberal arts schools and the law schools in this country always tout that they “teach you to think.” Beware whenever you hear that phrase. The schools repeatedly make this claim because they aren’t teaching you much of anything. I made the mistake of initially getting a liberal arts degree. The education is trash. Most of the classes revolve around arrogant professors leading discussions between liberal students regurgitating the usual left wing talking points, and conservative students regurgitating the nonsense they heard on Fox. The exorbitant tuition I paid even went to the speaking fees of communists (yes, there are still proud communist professors, and they charge tens of thousands of dollars to speak at other schools for an hour) and that tea bag felon Dinesh D’Souza (my school wanted to provide balance, by paying tens of thousands to a right wing asshole who spent an hour claiming there is absolutely no racism in America, except of course racism against white people). Thanks for spending my money on intellectually bankrupt assholes toilet liberal arts college!

      For much less, you can go to a state school, study business management or engineering or something useful, and get a good job. In my case, I was able to do a post bac at a state school and take Human Anatomy and Physiology, Pathogenic Microbiology, and other medically relevant courses not offered by trash liberal arts schools. The best part was, I didn’t have to listen to a pretentious liberal arts professor or law professor claim they were teaching me to think. We just learned something useful that I use today.

      Delete
  9. Meanwhile. over on JDU, looks like a LaRouche-er got loose over there. Discussion of conspiracy theories centering on the Tavistock Institute et.al.

    Though that blog went downhill fast after the Great Purges of a few years back, when I was forever banned, this thread is somewhat entertaining.
    http://www.jdunderground.com/pol/thread.php?threadId=134535

    ReplyDelete
  10. Law is a shit profession. Period.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Charleston Law School President Ed Bell has a message for graduates:

    “We encourage students immediately after getting out of school just to take a couple years and give back. Go be a policeman, go be a fireman. Go work as a law clerk. A lot of these are low-paying jobs, but it teaches them something they will take with them for the rest of their lives.”

    http://www.postandcourier.com/news/charleston-school-of-law-off-u-s-education-department-s/article_61753d12-5212-11e7-a67e-c3bd31917028.html

    The article notes, that the school has been able to “keep tuition in check. Tuition for the upcoming year is $40,595.”

    From the NYPD website:
    Starting salary: $42,500
    Salary after 5 ½ years: $85,292
    Salary with overtime and other benefits: over $100,000
    Benefits: 27 paid vacation days after 5 years, unlimited sick leave with full pay, medical, retirement at one half salary after 22 years of service.
    http://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-benefits.page

    From the Dallas PD website:
    Starting salary: $46,870
    Starting salary with 4 year college degree: $50,470
    Base salary range of a Sergeant: $56,598 - $89,558
    Base salary range of a Lieutenant: $62,001 - $98,094
    Benefits: 15 days per year with 1-4 years of service, up to 23 days per year with 19+ years of service, health insurance, pension at 55 with at least 10 years of service.
    http://www.dallaspolice.net/joindpd/Pages/SalaryBenefits.aspx

    Average salary of a solo practitioner (all solos, not just new attorneys): $49,130.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-lawyers-are-a-dying-breed-2015-6

    Here is some advice for everyone out there, skip paying Ed Bell $40k a year for a worthless education. Apply directly to a police or fire department. A career as a police officer or fire fighter is not low paying – it is upper middle class. You will make a lot more money as a police officer or fire fighter than as a shit law attorney.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sheriff Ed Tom Bell from No Country For Old Men would probably say to not go into law enforcement 'cause it's too dangerous and you might have to outlast a psycho killer in the desert. But the story is set in 1980 or roundabouts and law skool was dirt cheap then anyway.

      Delete
    2. Utter shit.

      First of all, one does not "[g]o be a policeman" or a fireman. It's not so easy as that. If jobs are even available, and the graduates in question can get them, the process for applying is still long, as is the required training. One does not saunter into the local constabulary and magnanimously declare that one deigns to accept a job there for a year or two.

      Second, if Bell is so fond of this sort of work, why doesn't Charlatan require it of applicants, rather than recommending it for graduates? Medical schools insist on some experience with carrying bedpans or whatever. Charlatan could do the same, if it weren't so eager to draw in fee-paying dolts.

      Third, how exactly are people supposed to make the payments on their student loans with a job that pays $40k or so in expensive New York City? Again, scamster Bell shows no appreciation of the plight of someone ass enough to have attended his toilet institution.

      Delete
    3. That asshat has a lot of nerve with his Boomer-esque "give back" spiel. Why doesn't he go to the head of the line and be the first then?

      What's his salary? Medium six-figures for doing nothing all day, I'll wager.

      You want your victims to "give back" after they've paid $40k + living expenses X 3 - so close to 150k easy after 3 years and a near-worthless degree for 95% of them.

      Ridiculous and insulting.

      As far as the NYPD, they instituted a "No-JD" policy sometime ago and, I predict, so will other cities and towns as more and more unemployed, hapless JD's fail to find employment.

      Delete
    4. Well.. I did 5 minutes of Internet research on becoming a fireman or police officer. That's 5 minutes more, at least, than Boomer asshats who, as Boomers do, have a 100% correct opinion on Everything and are right at least 100% of the time.

      There are lists - long lists - for becoming a paid fireman or police officer. Saw a post on JDU in one of the many threads on this that get brought up and re-hashed periodically as Lemmings, desperate for work, dream of elusive civil service gigs.

      Basically, the take away was: IF you score well enough, high enough, on a list, you still have to know someone.. There are hundreds of applicants who make these lists as it is and only a very few openings each year. So essentially, you'll just sit on the list until it expires and they give the test again.

      The thread I saw talked about how these jobs are coveted and passed around and I imagine that's close to what happens in reality.

      Sound familiar? It should. Because it's just like law. You need to know someone. Be a part of the Club.

      So Boomer asshats can opine all they want on subjects they know nothing about because.. they like to hear themselves talk.

      These are academics that are not, have not been, and never will be out in the Real World.

      Oh.. and I was wrong.. Here's the 509 for Charlatan School of law:

      http://www.charlestonlaw.edu/Prospective-Students/ABA-Consumer-Information-Standard-509/ABA-509-Report.aspx

      $40K per year tuition, closer to $41K and about $23k per year living expenses.

      That's $64K per year. You'll easily pass $180K by going here.

      This figure doesn't include 3 years of lost opportunity costs nor UG which will tack on, conservatively, another $100K. And there's your $300k debt for degrees which enrich the Hackademic class and are as devalued as today's dollar vs. 1913. Thank you, Federal Reserve.

      Oh, and one last point: If you're really lucky, some POC judge, politician in a black robe, will find it in his Grinch-like heart to impose mandatory Pro-Bono either before you can sit for the Bar'zam or when you're a licensed JD afterwards - plus the Bar Dues each year and CLE's, of course.

      The Scam never ends in law. Never.

      Delete
    5. It's like anything really. Actors and actresses same thing. I see women on my street who are prettier than movie stars. But they weren't discovered. Or they didn't blow the director. So off they go to join the rat race. Or hope they snag a doctor or something.

      Delete
    6. I love these old Boomers who think you can become a big city police officer or firefighter by just applying. LMAO. These civil service jobs are coveted, at least in the major cities, 20-and-out defined-benefits pension plan, health care, wonderful post-career options (i.e., casino or hotel security gigs), it just goes on and on.

      It would be almost cute of these Old Boomers to have these silly opinions were it not for the fact they were still running things. These civil service gigs are SO much better than your average sh!tlaw shop (I know, as a recovering sh!tlawyer, believe me) most people would not have a clue.

      This is because most of the public believes what is portrayed about law on tv and the movies, the popular culture. Unlike the other professions, law is portrayed the furthest from reality.

      Delete
  12. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/the-wrong-people-have-stopped-applying-to-law-school/255685/

    Back on April 10, 2012, The Atlantic published an epic Jordan Weissmann piece that was entitled “The Wrong People Have Stopped Applying to Law School.” Look at this insightful conclusion:

    "Yesterday, LSAC released a new bit of evidence that law school has finally lost its luster. Applicants are down more than 15 percent for the year. But there's one problem: The wrong students have stopped applying.

    Take a look at the chart below, which shows the number of applications from prospective students in each LSAT range for 2012. Here's the take away: The number of students applying who probably have no business going to law school has dropped the least. The number of students applying who probably should be going to law school has dropped the most.

    Here are a few rough rules of thumb on LSAT scores. To get into a top 50 law school, you need roughly a 160, give or take a few points. To break into one of the vaunted Top 14 programs -- yes, this really is all based on U.S. News Rankings...welcome to the industry -- you realistically need something closer to at least a 165. Once you start looking at the super elites, you're talking 170 and above.

    And yet, the smallest drop in applications has been among test takers who scored below a 144, the ones least likely to get into a reputable program. Now, some of these students probably need to go to law school for the good of society. I mean that sincerely. A lot of them likely come from less affluent backgrounds, and will likely be willing to work for small firms and government offices that provide services for people who cannot afford to hire Williams & Connolly every time they need legal help. These are your small town lawyers, your inner city lawyers. But just because a few of these potential students need to get a law degree doesn't mean all of them should. And many will likely be heading to J.D. mills that offer them a coin-flip's chance of getting a job after graduation.

    Meanwhile, take a look at students in the 170-174 range, which is down by more than 20 percent. What does that tell us? It says that fewer people who are smart and [hard-working] enough to even get that score are probably taking the LSAT, and even if they are, they've heard enough terrible news about the legal economy that they've chosen not to apply. Now, a 170 on your LSAT does not guarantee you a future wearing pinstripes and wingtips. I know more than a few young graduates of elite law schools who have struggled to find work. But if you're good enough to hit the magic [170] mark, it means you stand a better chance than most of surviving in today's law market.

    So the smart kids got the memo. Law school is largely a losing game, and they're not going to play, even though they can probably count on a better hand than most. Meanwhile, the number of laggards applying has barely budged.

    Maybe that's just what makes the smart kids the smart kids."

    Sadly, waterheads who score 146 on the LSAT believe that they are going to overcome the odds. And these dolts end up attending piles of excrement, and racking up an additional $140K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE DEBT – for a garbage law degree. Five years later and intelligent college graduates are still avoiding law school at a MUCH higher rate than the idiots with poor test scores. Of course, the pig deans and “professors” will cry about the need for more “social justice warriors.” Yet, they will be happy to charge those fools $40K in annual tuition.

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    1. A 144? For the good of society? How could society be well served by "lawyers" who scored at the 23d percentile?

      Nowadays it is widely believed that any old idiot can become a lawyer and provide decent legal services. That wasn't the case just a couple of decades ago.

      Delete
  13. Most of the people who go to elite law schools do so with the idea that they will end up as a big law associate when they graduate. And if you graduate from an elite school, you have a pretty good shot at big law. No guarantees of course, but a pretty good shot. But here’s the thing. By all accounts, big law is a hellish existence. Crazy hours, abusive bosses, and poor long term career prospects. True story, I had a friend who went to an elite law school and ended up as an associate at a white shoe firm in Manhattan. In his early 30s, he quit the law completely, went back to school to get his MBA and has been working in finance now for 15 years. When I asked him why he left the law, he told me that he didn’t want his 30s to be like his 20s. It took my friend three years of law school and 5 years as a big law associate to figure out that he made a mistake. A lot of the kids today who have the credentials to get into an elite law school are avoiding the mistake altogether

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  14. Nando, it's a shame you're not getting paid for this, because it would be lifetime employment. The scam is going to last forever.
    Let's look at the facts: yes, IT finally failed, but all the Infilaw schools are still open, and Charleston, which appeared to be on the verge of closure just 18 months ago, is still surviving on those loan dollars. As of today, not one school appears ready to close, not even Charlotte. And politicians are now spending taxpayer money to build NEW totally unneeded law schoos(see UNT)-and that's not the end, as both Washington state and Alaska politicians are agitating to build new law schools.
    The scam, an important part of the Education Industrial complex, will last forever because of the unholy marriage of two things: the terminally dishonest and the abjectly stupid.
    Let's deal with the dishonest first: the law school deans/administrators, etc. They spout all sorts of nonsense abuot diversity and serving the underserved...but how diverse is ls academia. Answer: not at all. And how many of thses deans/profs are actually doing pro bono work? Very very few. And rather than rehash all that's been said already, look to one thing: the law schools lied so much and so outrageously that they were forced to publish employment statistics(those stats are pretty fake, and the schools do their best to game them-remember all those wonderful one year law school funded jobs which disappeared after the ABA said those jobs didn't count?).
    Law is the only profession that requires this of its schools-not medicine/dentistry/pharmacy/nursing-because the culture of lying to applicants became so ingrained even the ABA couldn't ignore it.
    Those in the law school scam make way too much money to ever deal honestly with any issues-instead they'll take anyone, and complain that the bar is too hard. And that's the next fight-lowering standards for the bar exam. And if recent history is instructive, the law schools will succeed.
    Now the stupid: the tens of thousands who bought the "everyone goes to college" nonsense. First, not everyone is cut out for college-but second, and more important, the economy-no economy-can absorb the endless stream of worthless BAs-how many history/sociology/political science, etc majors are needed? Very very few. So you've got tens of thousands of people with worthless degrees.
    And as pointed out above, this business of falling into a well paying civil service job is nonsense. Connections are always needed: every ask why whole families are members of NYPD but your very smart friend, with the high test score, can't get hired?
    So these BAs have nothing to do-and then they get lied to by the law schools. Some-very few-are true Special Snowflakes who see themselves as true warriors for justice, ignoring completely that virtually no such legal jobs exist. Years ago, ADA and PD jobs were fall back jobs, to do for a few years before going into private practice. Now they are almost impossibly competitive, and if you get one, never let go. Forget the fact that paying back loans on 60K/year is near impossible.
    So these new grads have a choice: work at the GAP or go to law school. So they lie to themselves, fully knowing they are only going to avoid having to work retail-and what's worse, explain to all they do have a college degree but retail was all they could get. So they go to ls, take on more debt(they are never going to pay their college debt anyway), and tell people they're going to ls to practice "international law or entertainment law or social justice law". It's a face saving lie that even they don't believe. But attending ls allows adult decisions to be postponed for three years.
    And that's it-the schools will keep lying and there is an inexhaustible supply of new grads with nothing better to do.
    It's never going to end.

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    1. I just wanted to add that I completely agree with 6-20-17 @ 8:33 AM.

      I also have come to the same conclusions that he/she has (he).

      College degrees are totally devalued since Boomer days. Along with law. I coined this phrase a long time ago and was laughed at.. But I'm the one laughing now: Education Arms Race.

      One nuke in the world is power. 100,000 nuclear MIRV warheads is Armageddon.

      Long ago in another life, I wrote that college also was a waste for all but the PPC. For the PPC, college and law school / other advanced degrees are merely "finishing school" for them.

      Their jobs are lined up, waiting for them before they ever start.

      This is a new Gilded Age and those in power are feasting on the naive young - as they always have.

      Fool them once with college? Well, that worked.. Some will fall for the same trick twice with law school, etc..

      And as 8:33 AM wrote, this is what's happening. Nope, the Scam will never end. Never. Law schools will be leaner individually with less prawfs, etc. but those at the top of the institutions will still make incredible money while destroying their charges lives and financial futures.

      It starts with college (search "college scam" on YouTube) and continues on with law school.

      Grads out of college with devalued degrees and not PPC will find themselves out of luck.. Some will double down on a losing bet with graduate school which, again, is going to fail because they won't go to the elite schools like the PPC, etc.

      8:33 AM is completely right. He explained perfectly why this is happening looking beyond and behind the numbers.

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  15. A suggestion for further research is the Kentucky Bar Association trying to cash in on a fake innocence story

    http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C855/

    Headsup: Knox talks to the Kentucky Bar Association this Friday. Post follows on how Kentucky lawyers in furthering the dishonest trashing of Italian justice are in effect mafia tools. We have chilled similar past events. Supporting tweets would help. Update from Italy soon.

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