Wednesday, June 21, 2017

Wipe Thoroughly: Which ABA-Accredited Diploma Mills Have the Most Unemployed Graduates?


http://abovethelaw.com/2017/05/the-law-schools-with-the-most-unemployed-graduates-2016/?rf=1

Toilets on Parade: On May 24, 2017, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry labeled “The Law Schools With The Most Unemployed Graduates (2016).” Take a look at this straightforward opening:

“How is the employment scene looking for recent law school graduates? We’ll start with the good news: compared to the class of 2015, a larger percentage of 2016 law school graduates were able to find full-time, long-term jobs where bar passage was required (that were not school-funded) within 10 months of receiving their degrees. About 62 percent of 2016 graduates landed these plum jobs, up from 59 percent in 2015. 

Now, for the bad news: the good news we just discussed wasn’t so good after all, as the total number of desirable law jobs recent graduates landed declined by 4 percent since 2015 — that’s 1,033 fewer jobs. The only reason that the overall employment rate increased is because there were 2,860 fewer law school graduates trying to secure jobs. As we mentioned previously, this is the third straight year that the declining number of law graduates has propped up the employment rate while the number of law jobs actually declined.

So, with fewer law school graduates competing for jobs, one would assume (or hope) that would mean that fewer law school graduates were unemployed 10 months after receiving their degrees, right? Wrong. 

Law.com produced several helpful charts based on law school employment data for the class of 2016. Today, we will highlight the most alarming chart of all, the 20 law schools with the highest percentage of unemployed graduates. Here are the top 10 law schools on that chart for your sadistic viewing pleasure: 

1. Charlotte Law: 30.88 percent 
2. Southwestern Law: 28.97 percent 
3. Thomas Jefferson Law: 28.57 percent 
4. Florida Coastal Law: 27.76 percent 
5. Valparaiso Law: 24.38 percent 
6. U. San Diego Law: 24.31 percent 
7. Elon Law: 23.60 percent 
8. LaVerne Law: 23.53 percent 
9. Chapman Law: 23.42 percent 
10. U. Pacific McGeorge Law: 23.02 percent (corrected) That was depressing.” [Emphasis mine]

You will notice that all ten of these trash cans have the following in common: (a) they are private schools; and (b) they are low-ranked landfills. They each offer piss poor employment prospects – even for those who end up in the top 10%-20% of the class. Huge tuition will be rammed down your throat, as a student at any of these “institutions of higher learning.” Still want to sign on the dotted line at any of these piles of excrement, Dumbass?!?! 

http://www.law.com/sites/almstaff/2017/05/16/where-the-law-jobs-are-the-2016-edition/

Charts and Graphs: On May 16, 2017, Law.com featured a Karen Sloan article entitled “Where the Law Jobs Are: The 2016 Edition.” The text was essentially covered by Above the Law in its entirety. 

https://public.tableau.com/profile/publish/ABA-School-Jobs-2016/Story1#!/publish-confirm

Go to the charts and select the entitled “Unemployed.” Here is the next group of ten, foul garbage heaps, as listed by Law.com:

11. University of San Francisco School of Law: 22.86 percent
12. Golden Gate University School of Law: 20.54 percent 
13. University of Oregon School of Law: 20.16 percent 
14. Western Michigan University Cooley Law School: 19.48 percent 
15. Willamette University College of Law: 19.30 percent 
16. DePaul University College of Law: 19.23 percent 
17. Santa Clara University School of Law: 18.60 percent 
18. Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law: 18.45 percent 
19. Barry University School of Law: 17.41% 
20. Liberty University School of Law: 17.24%

That listing only includes one public school. Starting to see a pattern here, genius?!?! Anyone enrolled at any of the 20 piles of waste above is simply too damn dumb to represent other people in legal matters. Would you want any of these clowns to draft a simple will for your grandmother?! Perhaps you would be okay with these dunces filing a small claims action on your behalf. Then again, if you have an Associate’s degree or some common sense, then you are most likely capable of writing it up yourself and presenting your side well in a less formal court setting. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust these idiots to order food for someone else at a restaurant. Hell, I’m not sure I would feel confident letting any of these morons drive me around in a car. 

Conclusion: In the final analysis, if you even consider any of these 20 cesspools, then you deserve your fate. If you end up owing $200K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – and the only job you can land is “sandwich artist” – who cares? You chose to attend a pathetic pile of rot for your “legal education” – and you should have done some basic research, fool! If you bothered to look up job outcomes for these commodes – for more than five minutes – then you decided to ignore the data. Do not try to seek sympathy on this site. The information has been out there for damn near a decade. And best of all, it is free to peruse. Think about that when you are “freelancing” as a dog walker, Bitch. Be nice to the successful people who hire you, and they might tip you. Also, don’t forget to pick up Buddy’s turds either. Hell, those who pay will likely be younger than your ass too, Stupid.

36 comments:

  1. The only unanswered question here is: WHY does the Federal government continue to underwrite these failure factories through unlimited, no-questions-asked loans?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The answer to this question is problematical. The students that would be negatively impacted by any restraint on student loans are minorities and the poor. Pick your poison: Everybody gets to go to law school resulting in the decline of the standards of the profession or only the wealthy get to go and and we eliminate any true diversity in the profession.

      Delete
    2. I’m not sure why the cost cutting Republican Congress seeks to gut Medicaid (the health insurance program for the poor), and previously sought to cut Medicare (the health insurance program for the elderly), but ignores the wasteful Federal student loan program. In the 1990s the Republican Congress and Clinton passed a law that cut Medicare payments to doctors. But the doctors threatened to stop treating Medicare patients if payments were reduced. So every year Congress deferred the cuts and adequately funded Medicare payments to doctors. A couple years ago, after intense lobbying from doctors, the Republican Congress and Obama agreed to permanently eliminate the cuts that were never implemented. Now the Republicans seek to gut Medicaid in the new Trumpcare law. Doctors may refuse to take on Medicaid patients if the government will not provide adequate payment. But cutting Medicare is a lot different than cutting Medicaid. The country universally opposes harming the elderly. And the elderly can always be counted on to vote. But many people in this country loath the poor. It’s easy to tell the poor, “if you want health insurance, then get a job!” And the poor do not come out and vote as strongly as the elderly.

      So the Republicans are busy cutting other programs, but the Federal student loan program is off their radar. The toilet law schools can charge any price, and the Federal government will cover 100% of the tuition, no questions asked. Cooley and Thomas Jefferson are abject failures. The schools produce hordes of unemployed and underemployed grads who will never work in law. The total cost of attendance at these schools is over $230k. These grads will never repay that debt. The schools even tell their students not to worry because the loans will be forgiven after 20-25 years. Instead of paying the exorbitant salaries of pig law professors and deans, that money could have been used for much better uses.

      Delete
  2. Lemmings, please take note: the JD is not at all a "versatile degree."

    ReplyDelete
  3. This is Jerry Falwell Jr., Esq. Don’t listen to the radical liberal attacks on Liberty University. I’m proud of the work Liberty University School of Law is doing to train the next generation of Tea Bag Patriot attorneys. Not a single grad last year took a clerkship with a heathen, left wing radical Federal judge. Despite the disastrous economy because of Obama, we placed 55% of our grads into full time, long term, bar passage required jobs. Those numbers will improve dramatically once the Democrats stop obstructing President Trump, and allow him to pass bigly tax cuts for the rich and end the Obamacare disaster - a costly giveaway to lazy freeloaders. Jesus would never support healing lazy poor people.

    Frankly, I told our unemployed grads (the “bums”), that they need to pick themselves up by the bootstraps. Stop acting like entitled liberals. We taught them the skills they need to start their own practice. There are so many people like Kim Davis out there, and so many bakers and small business owners, looking for a Liberty University law school grad to protect their right to discriminate, er, not serve radical gays. Instead of glorifying these immoral liberal values, we should celebrate moral, blue collar billionaires like Rush Limbaugh or President Trump. They value heterosexual marriage so much, they both got married multiple times!

    For only $52,007* a year, we can train you to become the next Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III! Your tuition dollars are used to pay my meager $926,634 salary to spread the gospel.

    *Tuition and fees subject to yearly increase. Does not include $860 BARBRI fee or $100 graduation application fee.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Verily, saith Old Guy, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a graduate of Liberty "University" to find a real job as a lawyer.

      Delete
    2. ...than to make two consecutive student loan payments...

      Delete
  4. In the Bay Area we have attorneys who graduated from Harvard and Yale charging peanuts to get legal work. There is one fellow who has 30 years experience and a graduate of Yale and he is fighting for work against 10,000 other attorneys who mostly graduated from crap schools like Santa Clara and Golden Gate.

    But no, the guy who graduates from Tom Jeff School of Law is going to be a star. I would never hire any one from any of those California law schools on that list.


    Oh yes the California legal market is fanatic. Only 7 of the 20 law schools on this list are based in California, but who cares? Move a long nothing to see here.

    ReplyDelete
  5. You know your law school is shit when Cooley has fewer unemployed law grads 10 months out than your school.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Just a guess. Five more law schools will close in the next year or two.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thomas Jefferson "School" of Law is up to its eyeballs in debt from constructing a new building for itself, and yet the San Diego lawl skool does not seem to be worrying at all, even though it should be defunct by now. So either they have a plan to save themselves, or the entire "campus" is delusional.

      - Strelnikov

      Delete
  7. The official unemployment rate for the entire US is about 4.3%. Actual unemployment is almost certainly much higher. But it's not 17%, never mind 31%. And of course most unemployed people did not pay a six-figure sum for the privilege.

    Anyone who attends a toilet law school—and more than 90% of them are toilets—is a goddamn fool.

    ReplyDelete
  8. 6 of the worst 10 are California law skools. And 9 of the worst 20 for law grads are in California. Nothing can justify this nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Go West young man" I was told. "Gold and riches" I would find they said. All I have to show is a turd polished JD from an unaccredited CA cesspool. Here's hoping next month (my 9th attempt at the CA bar) I will finally become an unemployed lawyer instead of an out of work law graduate.

      Delete
    2. From the midwest, "Going West" is all UPHILL.

      Delete
  9. No way those are the actual unemployed %s; counting 'solos' and those who've given up, I'd increase those numbers by half, or even double.

    The end is nigh, all you toilet law skool admin MFers!

    ReplyDelete
  10. J. Pendleton Hawthorne IVJune 21, 2017 at 7:17 PM

    If you study law, you will be rich. What's the matter with you guys? They didn't teach you that shit in boarding school? Or when you summered in Martha's Vineyard? Who cares if law school's expensive. You have to pay to play. Plus my dad wrote the check. I wasn't worried about the cost of law school when I was a college sophomore traipsing through Europe with women 10 years my senior. When I got in a scuffle at a Warsaw bar, I didn't let that affect my future either. It was just a misunderstanding. In fact I wasn't worried about my law school grades either. I spent five weeks in Amsterdam during my third year. Still got an article III clerkship. And my grades weren't all that great either. So just go out there and make it happen.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nice parody of patrician attitudes commonly seen in law-school scamsters and aristocratic law students.

      One grandee in my class spent most of one semester on a yacht. He showed up in the last few weeks just to take his exams and collect his low grades. His dumb but privileged ass was headed for a white-shoe law firm, so why did he have to bother with such inconveniences as classes?

      Delete
  11. McGeorge DOMINATES...the unemployment rolls.

    ReplyDelete
  12. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/an-expensive-law-degree-and-no-place-to-use-it.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Back on June 17, 2016, the New York Times published a Noam Schieber piece entitled "An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It." Recall this opening:

    "By most measures, John Acosta is a law school success story. He graduated from Valparaiso University Law School — a well-established regional school here in northwestern Indiana — in the top third of his class this past December, a semester ahead of schedule. He passed the bar exam on his first try in February.

    Mr. Acosta, 39, is also a scrupulous networker who persuaded a former longtime prosecutor to join him in starting a defense and family law firm. A police officer for 11 years in Georgia, Mr. Acosta has a rare ability to get inside the head of a cop that should be of more than passing interest to would-be clients.

    “I think John’s going to do fine,” said Andrew Lucas, a partner at the firm where Mr. Acosta rents office space. “He’s got other life skills that are attractive to people running into problems.”

    Yet in financial terms, there is almost no way for Mr. Acosta to climb out of the crater he dug for himself in law school, when he borrowed over $200,000. The government will eventually forgive the loan — in 20 years — if he’s unable to repay it, as is likely on his small-town lawyer’s salary. But the Internal Revenue Service will probably treat the forgiven amount as income, leaving him what could easily be a $70,000 tax bill on the eve of retirement, and possibly much higher.

    Mr. Acosta is just one of tens of thousands of recent law school graduates caught up in a broad transformation of the legal profession. While demand for other white-collar jobs has grown substantially since the start of the recession, law firms and corporations are finding they can make do with far fewer in-house lawyers than before, squeezing those just starting their careers...

    As of this April, fewer than 70 percent of Valparaiso law school graduates from the previous spring were employed and fewer than half were in jobs that required a law license. Only three out of 131 graduates worked in large firms, which tend to pay more generous salaries.

    “People are not being helped by going to these schools,” Kyle McEntee, executive director of the advocacy group Law School Transparency, said of Valparaiso and other low-tier law schools. “The debt is really high, bar passage rates are horrendous, employment is horrendous.”

    Sadly, this story did not dissuade a bunch of idiots from enrolling at Valparai$o Univer$iTTTTy Sewer of Law this Fall. These students are about as intelligent as pigeons.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "These students are about as intelligent as pigeons." Wrong! Many species of birds are known to use tools. When they encounter insects that are beyond their reach, they search for twigs to impale the insect. But students that enroll at toilet law schools can't even figure out how to use Google! Leave the poor pigeons out of this.

      Delete
    2. No, Acosta is no success story. He proved that by enrolling at Valpo.

      Delete
    3. Yeah I read this guy's story. If he had half a brain he would realize the Valparaiso, Indiana is a dump and there are no law jobs there. All he had to do was look around and realize there are no people here who have fucking money to pay for attorneys.

      The problem with law is that you serve people who have no fucking money. I mean come on, is a guy arrested for bank robbery, going to pay you to represent him? HELL NO!

      Plus when I look to hire an attorney, I fucking look for the asshole who has the best experience and graduated from at least a T12.

      Hell, I got some asshole I hired for a job who graduated from Yale and has 30 years experience. Yeah right, I am going to hire some asshole from Valparaiso or Tom Dooley.

      Delete
    4. I looked up this guy's linkedin page, and if he's a success story, I'd hate to see what a failure looks like. The NYTs story says he joined up with a former longtime prosecutor, but it looks like he's solo now, with no experience, and $200 K in debt, chasing after deadbeat DWI clients. And lets not forget, this guy will be on IBR until retirement age, at which point he gets hit with a tax bomb. He should have stayed a cop.

      Delete
  13. The asshats at Touro actually bragged about their employment numbers being at a ten-year high. Surprised the article wasn't written in comic sans font/Doge meme style...So employed. Much awesome.

    http://www.tourolaw.edu/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=352

    ReplyDelete
  14. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/business/dealbook/burdened-with-debt-law-school-graduates-struggle-in-job-market.html

    On April 26, 2015, the New York Times DealBook featured an Elizabeth Olson article headlined "Burdened With Debt, Law School Graduates Struggle in Job Market." Read this excerpt:

    "Jonathan Wang has not practiced law since he graduated from Columbia Law School in 2010, but he did not plan it that way.

    When he entered law school, the economy was flourishing, and he had every reason to think that with a prestigious degree he was headed for a secure well-paying career. He convinced his parents, who work in Silicon Valley, that he had a plan. “I would spend three years at school in New York, then work for a big law firm and make $160,000 a year,” said Mr. Wang, 29. “And someday, I would become a partner and live the good life.”

    Mr. Wang, who works in Manhattan as a tutor for the law school admissions exam, is living a life far different from the one he envisioned. And he is not alone. About 20 percent of law graduates from 2010 are working at jobs that do not require a law license, according to a new study, and only 40 percent are working in law firms, compared with 60 percent from the class a decade earlier. To pay the bills, the 2010 graduates have taken on a variety of jobs, some that do not require admission to the bar; others have struck out on their own with solo practices. Most of the graduates have substantial student debt.

    Even as law school enrollment was peaking in 2010 — reaching 52,488, according to American Bar Association figures — those graduating were not receiving job offers from firms where they were interning. And offers to some students were rescinded.

    “None of this was on my radar,” Mr. Wang said, “but it began to be obvious by the time second-year summer internships were over. We knew things were depressed, but then the legs were cut out from under us.”

    After the economic collapse in the fall of 2008, corporations began to cut spending on legal matters, and law firms, in turn, began to reduce their hiring and even laid off employees. The legal profession was undergoing the early wave of turbulence that left graduates in subsequent classes facing a harsher job market that has shown few signs of a robust recovery. But the class of 2010 was the first to experience it full force."

    Do you understand the implications of this piece, lemmings?! Mr. Wang went to a legit top five law school in the country - and he became a test prep tutor! And you think that YOU are going to be a rousing success, coming out of a third tier commode or fourth tier trash pit?!?!

    Automation has improved by leaps and bounds since that time. Does anyone with an IQ above room temperature believe that law firms, big dollar clients, and other legal employers are going to turn back the clock – and choose to hire legions of attorneys, instead of using advanced technology, to handle discovery and other similar matters? Have fun making $42K per year, with your worthless TTT degree, chump!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Which one of these schools are most like Hamline and Whittier (i.e., small private schools with limited endowments that can't afford the hit on their pocketbooks or their limited reputations)?:

    1. Valpo (#5 on the list)
    2. Elon (#7)
    3. Willamette (#15)
    4. Campbell (#18)

    I think it is good bet that one of these law schools will be the next to close.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All of those schools are equally shitty. Does it matter which one closes?

      Delete
    2. Fuck you. I'm starting my 3L year at Valpo this fall. I don't have any real leads on jobs. Nor do most of my classmates. But I just know it's gonna pay off for me. So once again fuck you.

      Delete
    3. @4:24,

      Most everyone who reads the scamblogs thought the same way you do now. Be sure to check back in a few years. I sincerely hope it works out for you. But unless you come from money, the odds of your making a successful career in this godawful profession are very small.

      Delete
  16. The problem with a non-elite JD is that if you try to leave law (or never get in) non-law employers will hate you.

    That's the problem with the damn thing.

    It is a scarlet letter. Non-law employers will be HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS when your desperate ass shows up on their doorstep looking for work. You will be branded a loser who couldn't hack it in law (despite the fact that the professional life expectancy for your average toileteer solo is 3-5 years, tops).

    Forget that.

    You will be breanded either as one who "couldn't hack it" in the "lucrative" field of law or as a misfit who will bolt, or sue them at the earliest opportunity. Think hard as to whether you really want to practice law before spending or borrowing big money to get an ordinary JD. Beware. It will affect all other aspects of your life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can attest to the scarlet letter effect of a toilet JD. Better to hide your JD, or claim you were disbarred for drug abuse or something.

      The ones that do "make it" spend their days fighting about politics on Facebook, while scraping up enough cases to earn $40,000 a year.

      Delete
    2. Not all non-law employers will hate you. When a Republican is president and they expand the military, or they lead us into a losing war in the Middle East and recruiting suckers to go fight is difficult, the military will take anybody. When I graduated from a toilet law school in the mid-2000s and Iraq was a disaster, and legal employers were not hiring toilet grads even back then, my Army recruiter was not highly suspicious when my desperate ass showed up. First question was, “can you pass a drug test right now, and if not, when can you pass?” The recruiter had a quota to fill. Recruiters got a bad reputation, but he was very honest. I was not the only law grad enlisting at that time. During my time in the Army, I met four other JDs who enlisted after law school. A law school classmate of mine even called me about a year or two after I enlisted. He was unemployed and desperate. He was considering enlisting in the Army, and he heard I had done it. I was honest. I told him they are paying big bonuses and offering student loan repayment, but you are treated like shit. This was when law schools were still claiming all their grads were employed making six figure salaries.

      I even heard stories about other JDs. In basic training, the best way to get through is to not fuck up and lay low, so you don’t get noticed by the Drill Sergeants. But when you have college and you enlist, you start as an E-4. Seeing I was an E-4, my Drill Sergeant asked me where I went to college. He persisted in asking me questions about what I had done previously. I told him I had been in law school. A second Drill Sergeant told me that they had another lawyer pass through before me.

      I never felt that I was hated by my NCOs or commanders because I was a lawyer. I knew what I signed up for. I didn’t act entitled. I just did the bull shit work we were assigned – pull staff duty (sit by a telephone for 24 hours at the battalion headquarters), pull CQ (sit at the barracks front desk for 24 hours), cut grass, mop floors, pick up trash, lay down sand bags in Iraq, wear a stupid reflective belt at night on our base in Iraq so a sniper could see me. The leaders treated me like shit, just like they did everyone else.

      With Trump as President, the military is trying to recruit tens of thousands of more people, and they are throwing money at people to join. There are probably recent toilet law grads signing up.

      Delete
  17. I'm sure its a great comfort to Stephen Diamond that sixteen law schools have worse unemployment rates than Santa Clara.

    Hell, there are three law schools in Northern California with worse unemployment rates than Santa Clara.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Valpo has been a trap school for years. Valparaiso has the faint "sound" of prestige I think due to the periodic notoriety of the basketball program, and the apparent legitimacy of its other programs, so it gets some play. But peel back theveneer of respectability and you see, at least for law, below-par placement stats.

    Avoid.

    ReplyDelete
  19. http://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2014/3/is-there-a-law-school-brain-drain-yes-with-a-but

    Back on March 7, 2014, Derek T. Mueller posted an Excess of Democracy blog post entitled "Is there a "law school brain drain"? Yes, with a but." Look at the following excerpt:

    "It's something of a mixed bag, then--yes, elite undergraduates are avoiding law school, and yes, it's at a higher clip than other feeder institutions, but in the most recent cycle it's not dramatically higher than other schools year-over-year, and the rate of decline is slowing more quickly at elite institutions.

    Further, Jerry Organ looks at the data and emphasizes how much scores have declined among matriculants in the entering class of 2013 over the class of 2012. Fewer applicants have translated into fewer high LSAT scores, and schools have not been shrinking their class sizes to accommodate.

    But, it's important to note an unmentioned trend this cycle: the best applicants are applying at a higher rate than the last couple of cycles, and the worst applicants are applying at a lower rate.

    Consider the data from 2012, at a point late in the cycle. Applicants with scores over 170 had dropped nearly 20%; applicants with scores below 145 had dropped just about 5%. And the headline was, "The Wrong People Have Stopped Applying to Law School."

    Or, consider the data from 2013, at a point slightly earlier in the cycle. There was around a 25% decline in applicants with scores over 170; the decline was lowest among applicants with scores under 140."

    Smarter students have been avoiding law school at a MUCH higher clip than the dolts and average college grads. That is because those with high LSAT scores understand that you need to land at Yale, Stanford, or Harvard to be pretty safe. Law school is an expensive path, and you may as well try to minimize the risk of financial ruin as best you can, folks.

    By the way, in a just workd no ABA-accredited diploma mill would even look at a cretin who scored below 150 on the entrance exam. Of course, the pigs are happy to take waterheads who didn't reach 140 on the LSAT. These "educators" are highly principled, right?!?!

    ReplyDelete

 
Web Analytics